GIANTRobOT42O Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Walmart stylee My link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Hmm, let's see here my figured top 339 would have cost me $3,200 at GC and they wouldn't negotiate on price. I got it at the House of Guitars for $2,300! Yeah I think it's about time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosurfer1959 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Good for them there losing sales all the time because of refusing to sell below MAP and they are definitely the 800 pound gorilla now. I can't see many vendors telling them no unless they want to go bankrupt. Even Gibson that has pretty much quit selling it's guitars to anybody but the GC type stores won't be able to do much about it. Maybe guitar center can makes itself profitable again. If not music stores or as dead as Record Shops, bookstores, video stores and the local hardware store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Yep but it'll start a chain reaction when this happens. Actually there is a legal maneuver around this for online sales. You can use an SSL protected site which can act as a retail site and view a lower price on an item there because you are not at the "advertised" site. This essentially skirts the MAP issue. But what this letter implies is that GC wants a broader reach, e.g. in mailed brochures and on prices in their actual stores. At least that's how I read it. This will force other stores to also display lower prices and start to bridge the gap between what they do and what you can find in a place like the HOG. For me I'm lucky enough to be close to the HOG, and even if GC prices are the same I'll still go to the HOG because of their service. But others aren't as lucky, so this is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I tend to think that if GC looked at how their stores were run, it would get them a lot farther. The problem isn't with MAP advertising, nor is a policy of advertising a lower price going to effect their ability to sell for less, or do what it takes to gain and keep customers. Wouldn't a memo to all their employees telling them they can sell for less than MAP make more sense than sending a memo to the venders telling them you are going to lower (map) prices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 y'all don't really think they'll be lowering prices I hope..... sounds like a very contrived "ad-man" style chest pounding publicity stunt......probably origionated by the mfgrs., to either lock in their most recent price increases, or to "set the stage" for the annual "price shift", when EVERYTHING goes up in price in late Jan.-early Feb. sorry if I sound a bit of a cynic, but they're just blowing the dust off old advertising hack w/this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookieman15061 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Yeah in "business speak" it means absolutely nothing. It's a holidays are over, January's dead, lets get some free pub kind of press release. They're probably scrutinizing how much money they waste sending out meaningless coupons for 10/15% off stuff ya don't wanna buy anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
57classic Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Guitar Center, now being the 1,000 pound gorilla in the instrument-selling business, has enough buying and selling power to make the manufacturers/distributers back off. Their internal lowest selling price policies are, and always were, their own. Some buyers wonder why/how some little mom-and-pop can sell lower than GC. It's because GCs strategy is more about volume than margin, and I reasonably suspect that their bean counters and advertising experts are always trying to find the most profitable balance between the two. The sales they "lose" to other stores due to price are quite probably rather inconsequential within the overall strategy. A sale that GC can easily afford to lose may be one a little store can't, even at a small profit. Question: If their overall strategy is volume rather than margin, then wouldn't it stand to reason they would always have the lowest price? By virtue of their size and buying power and terms, GC can better afford to take the margin hit off MAP than the Mom and Pop. That's what big box retail is all about. Years ago I worked in the Home Depot organization. Their moto was "stack it high and watch it fly". GC, on the other hand, doesn't seem to subscribe to the "guaranteed lowest price" philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-poland Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I think there might be a an advantage for the mom+pop if they are able to get the product at the same price as[GC] .probably not the case .many times lg.volume buyers [GC] will be get a better price eg.they'll buy 100s versus mom+pops 5or 10pcs. but not favorable to the big corporations is there's more people who are going to eat/wages from ea.pc.sold.trust me the lowly sales guys cut, does NOT compare with what ceo's and the like will get!! ya just gotta be a good shopper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Good on Guitar Center. It's about time someone killed the MAP concept which hurts small shops much more that the it hurts Guitar Center. Glad to see this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Interesting, now lets see what this means to us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluzhammer Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Here is "Da Truth" as I see it in dealing with GC: 1) Seek out and find one salesman/manager to deal with and deal with them only 2) Most of the guitars I'm interested in are advertised at 30 to 35 % over actual cost, the margin is less on your American PRS models. 3) Estimate real cost, find your comfort level price and let the fun begin. I have left the store with the transaction 99% percent done and came back an hour later to renegotiate the final price 4) GC doesn't keep the doors open solely by selling guitars, the real money is in accessories, software etc. 5) All of this MAP letter stuff is a offhanded sales gimmick in order to create a buzz and create traffic on the website and the retail floor, I have dealt with GC for years and have never paid retail price for any Gibson, Fender or PRS. 6) Should you find an Asst. manager that is good to deal with, they will let you know when the major manufactures offer additional incentives on their lines and models. It's all in how you play the game. As a side note, to demonstrate my appreciation for putting up with me, I usually stop by and hand deliver a gift card to the local steakhouse to my guy. It never hurts to prime the pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 . MAP is firmly entrenched in the industry - many manufacturers have these agreements with their retailers. There's a couple of manufacturers that don't want any prices advertised with some retailers - you must call or email to get a price - ie Ric - http://www.musiciansfriend.com/rickenbacker?_requestid=221969 Heck, Gibson even has some 5 star dealers that can't even list or show pictures of their Gibson stock online - http://www.fullersguitar.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=30&Itemid=53&TreeId=2 None of this will be changing anytime soon unless there's a court action. GC is provoking Gibson to pull their contract. I'm still lamenting Gibson pulling it's contract with Elderly. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unionman Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Walmart stylee My link Guitar Center and Walmart both suck. I never buy from either. Treat their workforces like cattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 It is against Federal Monopoly law for a manufacturer to dictate the selling price a retailer may charge. Manufacturers do communicate a Suggested Retail Pride (SRP), which is legal as it is only a suggestion. Some retailers charge more, some less. But, in my opinion, for the manufacturer to set a hard minimum or maximum advertised price goes counter to Federal Law. Could be that GC is testing the legal waters and hopes for a court room show-down to determine the legality of MAPs. Only time will tell.... that and the wallets of the lawyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Plains Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I see this as a good thing. It may not mean GC will wheel & deal as much but you may walk into a GC one day and see that $6,000 R9 listed for $4,999. By the way, rocket, I don't think it's a good idea to post how much the HOG sold you that guitar for; especially, on Gibson Forums. Ever hear of Center City Music? They used to sell Gibsons for dirt cheap. It's said that people continually posting how much they bought a Gibson off Saul is what eventually lead to Gibson dropping CCM. I'm probably guilty of doing this, too. Wouldn't a memo to all their employees telling them they can sell for less than MAP make more sense than sending a memo to the venders telling them you are going to lower (map) prices? A lot of their sales are through the website and a memo to staff wouldn't make any difference in that sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 For what it's worth, read what Moishe has written. He's beyond correct on pricing strategies, volume, etc. Retail at any level is a balance of figuring how to maximize profit. The word "loss leader" might make some degree of sense for everyone who's gone to a grocery store. Why should anyone assume it ain't the same at other sorts of retail? E.g., in the Epi forum a rank beginner was asking about buying his first guitar. Here's the "more experienced guitar picker/buyer's guide" to that purchase. So... $100 Epi acoustic, $20 gig bag, $15 tuner, $5 new strings "on sale," $15 capo, $10 strap "on sale," $10 beginner book "on sale"... Maybe a $25 setup and "free" beginner lesson... Where's the profit on the $100 guitar sale? m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I truly believe that the parent corporation of GC/MF will just eventually start buying up the manufacturers (if they haven't already). They have way more money and power than any single musical instrument manufacturer, and if they wanted to OWN Gibson, all they would have to do is write a check out of the petty cash account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest farnsbarns Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 That MAP does not dictate selling prices, only advertised prices. There's one small intricacy you may be missing. A company that makes most of it's sales on-line must sell at MAP or above because putting a lower price on their website is a contravention of Gibson's T's and Cs. This puts an obstacle in the way of internet sales which I believe is good for Gibson AND good for consumers. I actually believe that part of Gibson's T's and C's are that you must be a bricks and mortar shop to be a dealer, even if you sell on-line as well. With the internet putting so many types of bricks and mortar businesses on the brink of extinction I have to be happy that my local guitar shop is not as likely to disappear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 There's one small intricacy you may be missing. A company that makes most of it's sales on-line must sell at MAP or above because putting a lower price on their website is a contravention of Gibson's T's and Cs. This puts an obstacle in the way of internet sales which I believe is good for Gibson AND good for consumers. I actually believe that part of Gibson's T's and C's are that you must be a bricks and mortar shop to be a dealer, even if you sell on-line as well. With the internet putting so many types of bricks and mortar businesses on the brink of extinction I have to be happy that my local guitar shop is not as likely to disappear. That's how I feel about it. Thing is, I think the MAP policy is VERY fair to GC. I question the wisdom of GC wanting to upset that, as it SEEMS to me the MAP protects GC from their biggest competitor, which is online shopping. AND, it does not take away any advantage they would have over a lot of other options, such as pricing OR service, which they should have more resources there than anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Moishe again is correct as far as I can tell. Check ownership of GC, MF, etc., etc... Same company, different names and angles at selling so the parent firm gets the advantage of a number of retail formats... m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 This is not just talking about GC stores; it's about GC et al, meaning Music & Arts Center, Musician's Friend, GuitarCenter.com, LMI, Giardinelli, Musician.com, Private Reserve Guitars, and Woodwind and Brasswind. GC wants a leg up in all markets. Yes, they do. And, they have set them selves up quite well in getting a hold in every aspect of the market. They have the resources to do well, and to do the best in each "corner" of the market, but I get the impression that rather than want to be better than the competitors, they want to monopolize. A monopoly that serves neither the costumer, or the builder is not one that is good. So, where is GC in all this with this "threat" to the venders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californiaman Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Back in the day GC would negotiate on new merchandise. I've bought several guitars and or basses from them in the past. I think it's a great move. Good for them. Anything to stay competitive and remain a leader in the musical instrument market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest farnsbarns Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I don't think so. I think you're assuming that all internet sales are of the totally-automated type (click click buy), whereas savvy buyers often phone the seller and negotiate a better price. That's not an internet sale then is it, it's a telephone order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinh Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I assume they are talking about print media only, in that the Musicians Friend arm of CG has gone around the MAP polices on line for years by either requiring you to put the instrument in a "shopping cart" to see a below MA price, or e-mailing you the price. Notice that none of the Ricks on the MF site have prices. The thing that I find odd about the debate is the idea that GC is somehow losing money because it is being undercut by local dealers. The concept of MAP was that it would protect the higher retail prices of small local dealerships by preventing large out-of town conglomerates from luring customers away with lower advertized prices. Now that basis seems to be reversed, e.g. non advertizing local dealers are selling low by word of mouth, and luring GC customers away because GC can’t advertize a lower price.. For GC’s argument to be genuine, and not simply some sort of publicity stunt, it is fundamental that CG must be willing to sell instruments at well below MAP. Otherwise they are not harmed by having to advertize at MAP However, I’ve personally found little or no sign of this recently. They seem more inclined than ever to stay with the sticker price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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