Gibson Guitar Board: What Say You? Are American (made) products pricing themselves out of Business? - Gibson Guitar Board

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What Say You? Are American (made) products pricing themselves out of Business? I.E. Law of Diminishing Returns, etc.

#61 User is offline   cody78 

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 10:55 AM

View Post4Hayden, on 19 March 2017 - 10:49 AM, said:

CB how many time have you seen a top touring band play jap guitars at a concert ? none

4H


Sorry to interject, but aren't most Ibanez MIJ? Gretsch too now. Lots of big names use them. I recently saw an Iron Maiden concert on YT and one of their guitarists was playing an Epiphone Black Beauty (made in China I assume). I've noticed more big name players using import guitars from time to time. Even the great Joe Pass used an Ibanez in the 80's. Just an observation.
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#62 User is offline   tx-ogre 

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 12:04 PM

View Postcody78, on 19 March 2017 - 10:55 AM, said:

Sorry to interject, but aren't most Ibanez MIJ? Gretsch too now. Lots of big names use them. I recently saw an Iron Maiden concert on YT and one of their guitarists was playing an Epiphone Black Beauty (made in China I assume). I've noticed more big name players using import guitars from time to time. Even the great Joe Pass used an Ibanez in the 80's. Just an observation.


There are also a lot of metal bands (Metallica, Children of Bodom, Testament, Slayer, etc.) that play Japanese-made ESP guitars and/or basses.
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#63 User is offline   charlie brown 

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 01:01 PM

View Post4Hayden, on 19 March 2017 - 10:49 AM, said:

CB how many times have you seen a top touring band play Jap guitars at a concert ? none

4H


Well, thank you for your decision, to answer your own question! But, at least 3 I can think
of, right off the top of my "pointed little head!" U-2 (Sheraton) Fleet Foxes (Japanese Fender
Thinline Jaguar), Vampire Weekend (Sheraton), Daughter (at least, for awhile...I think they
still use, her "Dano" (bass) and other's, even though they've recently gone to Fender & Gibson's)
and, I suspect a LOT more than many folks realize, or even care! As mentioned earlier, some "Metal"
bands, use Japanese Ibanez, LTD's, or even Epi's. ("It ain't the guitar, it's the player!")

I've seen well known "blues players of both sexes, using Epiphone (Keb Mo, for one) and Ibanez,
etc., as well. Heck, there are some bands, that use old Harmonies, Dano's, Silvertone, etc.,
from back in the day...even if they were mostly MIUSA versions, they were/are hardly "Gibson's,
Fender's, Gretsch or Rickenbacker's. Yet, they do what their player's like, tonally. Their
guitar techs, do mention they need a LOT of "maintenance," but...that's not that unusual, even
for Gibson's and other higher dollar gear. But, they all use Great Sounding Amps!! Which, IMHO,
is far more important, than the cost or brand name, on a guitar head stock.

While my "Rant," if you like, may have seemed to be "trashing" Gibson's pricing, alone...that
was only ONE illustration, of a trend that has taken over most all "American" made products.
We (too often) pay more for even simpler, non-music related products, that are Made in USA,
than for their import versions, even with their import tariffs! And, I LOVE "Made in USA!"
But, some of us, retired, and/or on fixed incomes, cannot, or are finding it more difficult
by the day, to afford such "luxuries" as "Made In USA" seems to have become, anymore. If you
are working, at a great paying job, or are independently wealthy, or you get regular "cost of
living" increases, and just have "money to burn," it may be less of an issue, for you. So...
GO FOR IT!! Most (not all) workers pay, here, barely keep up with inflation, or the ever rising
"cost of living!" Many, do not! Which is why, in family households, BOTH parents, and often
some children of working age, ALL have jobs, at least "part time." That's especially true of
rural kids, but always has been.

So, constantly higher prices, across the board, DO negatively effect ALL of us, not just us
"Luxury Item" buyers. As many other's have done, and stated, I've gone to buying "used but
not abused" Gibby's and other MIUSA gear, as often as I can. I still drive my 2000 (17 year
old) Honda Accord Coupe, too! And, I (Still) LOVE it! So, yes, there are always ways around
the higher prices. But, it just reasons, that there will be a time, when prices will rise to
a level of diminishing returns. Maybe THEN, the companies will scale back prices, OR production,
and keep the "Elitist" mentality, of what they do produce, for those that can easily afford them.

Who knows?! No "Crystal Ball" in this house.


CB
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#64 User is offline   'Scales 

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 01:42 PM

View Postamerican cheez, on 18 March 2017 - 05:06 PM, said:

except, it's completely worthless and untrue. especially in electric guitars. you don't get what you pay for. unless i'm missing something, and you can explain why the Gibson Custom True Historic 1960 Les Paul Reissue Aged Vintage Cherry Sunburst, which costs CAD $15,510.30 is $13,415 better than the Gibson Les Paul Traditional Pro IV Iced Tea which costs CAD $2,094.78

View PostIzzy, on 19 March 2017 - 10:40 AM, said:

Resale value? Bragging rights? I mean, this is like comparing a very expensive non-jeweled watch ($5k) that keeps time the same way a cheaper watch ($200) keeps time. Some people want that fancy $5k watch. The person buying the expensive watch is getting what they pay for in the sense that they wanted to spend extra to have that special watch. The person who pays for the expensive watch wanting nothing more than an instrument to keep time is not getting their money's worth, however, and probably overpaid.


+1 Izzy. [thumbup]
Money is simply an invented liquid commodity traded to satisfy wants and needs. Since the ownership of a guitar is clearly a 'want' then what's better or worse and the degree of difference as it applies to cost is totally subjective to the buyer. To the non-guitarist the $2094.78 LP might appear an utter waste of $2094.78 as the $200 watch may to a blind person.
we had longer ways to go, but no matter, the road is life.

a few of my songs from first ever gig for originals band
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#65 User is offline   SmokeyGhost 

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 03:35 PM

This subject always perplexes me. My mind equates it to a person purchasing, say, an $800,000 home when a suitable property could be bought for $400,000. Buy what you want and, hopefully, can afford. Their money and they can do what they like with it. No harm to others nor is it anybody's business but the buyer. I don't know about others approach but my mind reaches a mental price point for products where I go, Nah! And my price point is different to that of others. It all works out in the end.
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#66 User is offline   american cheez 

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 05:49 PM

i agree in that, if you earned your money you don't have to justify how you spend it. that wasn't my point at all.
saying that "you get what you pay" for" in this case isn't true. you don't get a phenomenally BETTER guitar. it may not even be incrementally better. there are valid reasons why one is more expensive than the other, but it is not a "get what you pay for" scenario. that suggests that the more expensive guitar is always the better instrument, when we all know that not to be the case. i'm not saying the true historic isn't really cool, or that it's not worth what they charge. i only use it as an example to illustrate that "you get what you pay for" does not apply in some scenarios.
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#67 User is offline   'Scales 

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 06:21 PM

well AC, if you exclude personal preferences and wants/desires from the equation and focus only on materials and labour costs, it won't apply in most/all scenarios.

F'rinstance - say you must go and buy a T-shirt, and there are only 2 options, both identical materials and quality only one is emblazoned with BIEBER and the other with RUSH. The former costs $10 and the latter $20 and you can afford either. What ya gonna do? You get what you pay for, right?

[laugh]

not yanking your chain mate - its just an interesting topic and concept!
we had longer ways to go, but no matter, the road is life.

a few of my songs from first ever gig for originals band
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#68 User is offline   Mojorule 

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 04:14 PM

View Post'Scales, on 19 March 2017 - 06:21 PM, said:

well AC, if you exclude personal preferences and wants/desires from the equation and focus only on materials and labour costs, it won't apply in most/all scenarios.

F'rinstance - say you must go and buy a T-shirt, and there are only 2 options, both identical materials and quality only one is emblazoned with BIEBER and the other with RUSH. The former costs $10 and the latter $20 and you can afford either. What ya gonna do? You get what you pay for, right?

[laugh]

not yanking your chain mate - its just an interesting topic and concept!


In either case, I'd buy a magic marker as well and scrawl 'I hate' before the name of the act. Given that I could live my punk dream for half the price with the Bieber T, I guess I'd go for that, but it wouldn't be because I like Rush.

On the other hand, if my strategy were just to scrape the branding off the T, then I probably would pay double for the Rush one, because I'd have fewer letters to get rid of.
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#69 User is offline   OldCowboy 

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 04:45 PM

 SmokeyGhost, on 19 March 2017 - 03:35 PM, said:

This subject always perplexes me. My mind equates it to a person purchasing, say, an $800,000 home when a suitable property could be bought for $400,000. Buy what you want and, hopefully, can afford. Their money and they can do what they like with it. No harm to others nor is it anybody's business but the buyer. I don't know about others approach but my mind reaches a mental price point for products where I go, Nah! And my price point is different to that of others. It all works out in the end.

Good observation! That personal mental price point is something worth the trouble to cultivate and, once that's happened, likely won't correspond too closely with the next person's. The knee-jerk "THAT'S TOO MUCH" mentality, on the other hand, doesn't reflect much actual knowledge or logic.
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#70 User is offline   LarryUK 

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 04:59 PM

Posted Image
This Strat is a Modern Player Strat. I bought it used, but as new for 190. I've changed the pickguard, polished the frets etc. One day I had a go on a custom shop Strat at someone's house. I then drove home and got this Strat out and I can honestly say it felt as good to play. My point is, foreign makes are getting better and we keep hearing about faults on 'first world guitars'.
The bull**it factor is immense in Gibson/ Fender and if you look, there are great alternatives and a fraction of the price. E.g. The new Michael Kelly Strat/Teli range.
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#71 User is offline   merciful-evans 

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 09:58 AM

Like Larry, I have a couple of cheap guitars (modified admittedly) that are certainly the equal of high end models in every respect.
Someone can still have a superb guitar for very little money.


As for price (other than the aforementioned CS & PS excesses) almost all electric guitars are cheap. Yes even the made in USA ones. If you doubt that, check out the cost of violins, trumpets, saxophones, cellos, etc.

If we all gave up guitar, and took up the bassoon, how many of those do you think we would collect? We are all fortunate that guitars are so popular.
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#72 User is offline   pippy 

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 11:10 AM

View Postmerciful-evans, on 21 March 2017 - 09:58 AM, said:

...almost all electric guitars are cheap......If you doubt that, check out the cost of violins, trumpets, saxophones, cellos, etc.
If we all gave up guitar, and took up the bassoon, how many of those do you think we would collect?...

Fancy a Harp (or even two), anyone? Price is at the bottom of the page...

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http://www.lyonhealy...ncert-grand.htm

Pip.
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#73 User is offline   Twang Gang 

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 12:11 PM

Was shopping for a toggle switch plate (poker chip). On Gibson's website there is the "historic" washer for $34.99 plus the least expensive shipping option is another $13+. Scroll down a little there is a another washer (not historic, but still a plastic washer) for $4.99, but you still would pay over $13 to have it shipped. Shop elsewhere and I find the washer at Stew Mac for $1.84 (plus $6.95 to ship).

So it seems there is some excess profit taking when essentially the same item can range from $34.99 down to $1.84. Buyer beware.

Overall I think the biggest culprit is inflation. It is not that a guitar, or a car, or a house is worth 20X more than it was many years ago. It is that the dollar is worth 20X less.
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#74 User is offline   goldtop2 

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 06:41 PM

When discussing price there's always with Guitars,cars, or whatever the topic is MSRP.
MSRP is what it cost but there are several people that can give you a better price.
When selling used always consider MSRP when settling on a resale price.
Not the wholesale price you bought it for.
And in proportion to the final sale price the MSRP is not much more.
Say a historical washer at that price it's prices in proportion to what the guitar is worth. I'd just pay the extra and be happy I got what I wanted.

In other words they're not going to sell a switch washer for a $129000 guitar for $1.99!
You see now why they set the price at $34.99?
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#75 User is offline   goldtop2 

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 08:05 PM

Talk about profit margin?
Look what Gibson had to deal with when dozens of guitarists from the 60's/70's bought theirs at $300-$600usd then went off and used them to record records that made them millions!
And they sold these for just under $1000 and 50 years later some attorney pulled it out of his familys closet and sold it for $50000.
So I can't see how your accusing Gibson of stealing from you!
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