generaldreedle Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 So this will show that I'm new to guitar forums, but whenever I hear Gibson discussed on AGF there is a more than sizable contingent that denigrates the consistency of Gibson, or they're hardly mentioned at all when people are asking for recommendations, it's either Taylor Taylor Taylor or Martin or the Santa Cruz, Collings people. Is there a history to this on the forum or what? I'm asking it in this forum because I wanted some non AGF answers. I'm just surprised because when I was going through my buying process at GC here in Seattle all the Gibsons sounded great and my J45 Custom has been fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Honestly, a lot of AGF folk just dont 'get' the Gibson tone. Their definition of a guitar is either a 'cannon' Martin or piano like 'bass' and responsiveness. Plus too many of them go to church to play their Taylors and Gibson is the devils doing, its evil, bad, stay away from it I tall ya ! Then some of them suddenly have an awakening when after 25 years they finally get it .... and a new world begins -these are my favourites. btw: are you definitely not an AGF mod in disguise ... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalex Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 I think a lot of new guitar players/buyers tend to gravitate to the brighter sound of Taylor's or buy a Martin because they are the oldest and most famous brand. Then when they own one of these brands they listen to the rumors and without bothering to do any research for themselves jump on the Gibson bashing wagon. I don't pay any attention to it personally I put most of it down to ignorance. I suspect years down the road and with improved playing skills the Gibson naysayers end up buying one anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Taylor & Martin offer a consistently high, cookie cutter level of build quality, which is certainly commendable. Tone is another matter altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorick Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 So this will show that I'm new to guitar forums, but whenever I hear Gibson discussed on AGF there is a more than sizable contingent that denigrates the consistency of Gibson, or they're hardly mentioned at all when people are asking for recommendations, it's either Taylor Taylor Taylor or Martin or the Santa Cruz, Collings people. Is there a history to this on the forum or what? I'm asking it in this forum because I wanted some non AGF answers. I'm just surprised because when I was going through my buying process at GC here in Seattle all the Gibsons sounded great and my J45 Custom has been fantastic. Hi General, You are correct about history--the AGF started as a Taylor forum. You'll still find the ghosts of its origin in many of the long-time forumites' opinions. There are also some AGF folk who are "vintage" (i.e. as old as I am). Some of them harbor a grudge at Gibson for the decade of the 70s. I admit to having not been fond of Norlins myself. I'm a Bozeman fanatic, however. Martin managed to convince the wrinkly players that the quality issues of the 70s were a thing of the past, so Martin gets a good amount of love on AGF. Bozeman will win folks over in the same way, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaldreedle Posted July 3, 2013 Author Share Posted July 3, 2013 btw: are you definitely not an AGF mod in disguise ... ? No, but if there is that impression of the forum maybe a mod should come over here for a little cross-pollination of ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drathbun Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Hi General, You are correct about history--the AGF started as a Taylor forum. You'll still find the ghosts of its origin in many of the long-time forumites' opinions. There are also some AGF folk who are "vintage" (i.e. as old as I am). Some of them harbor a grudge at Gibson for the decade of the 70s. I admit to having not been fond of Norlins myself. I'm a Bozeman fanatic, however. Martin managed to convince the wrinkly players that the quality issues of the 70s were a thing of the past, so Martin gets a good amount of love on AGF. Bozeman will win folks over in the same way, I think. +1 I was one of those who held a 30 year grudge against Gibson because of an absolutely horrible '77 Hummingbird. I swore I would never own one again until I picked up and strummed a Songwriter in 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
struma6 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Ah, the brand elitism runs rampant! Take the finest guitar ever built and put it in 100 hands and a % of folks will tell you it's rubbish. Headstock snobbery abounds everywhere. AFG hates Gibson, Gibson denigrates Taylor, on and on and on. I learned through time that you never trash a brand in blanket terms...I've played Yamahas that were god-like, Martins that were utter firewood and Stellas I would sell my soul to own. "Mine is bigger/better than yours" is an age-old taunt and a total waste of time. If you like it, play it. It's a great guitar. I'd rather read and discuss what you LOVE, including the whys and what-nots, than bother to spend time on what you don't like. It CAN make for some funny as heck threads though, when a troll pops into a site and pokes a stick into a nest of scorpions. The ensuing battles take on epic proportions and hilarity ensues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaldreedle Posted July 3, 2013 Author Share Posted July 3, 2013 Hi General, You are correct about history--the AGF started as a Taylor forum. You'll still find the ghosts of its origin in many of the long-time forumites' opinions. There are also some AGF folk who are "vintage" (i.e. as old as I am). Some of them harbor a grudge at Gibson for the decade of the 70s. I admit to having not been fond of Norlins myself. I'm a Bozeman fanatic, however. Martin managed to convince the wrinkly players that the quality issues of the 70s were a thing of the past, so Martin gets a good amount of love on AGF. Bozeman will win folks over in the same way, I think. That's funny, not to repeat the whole story of my own NGD, but my teacher, a great fingerpickin' blues guy, was really down on Gibsons whenever I talked to him, and referenced the 70s era as being bad, although he like the J45 he had years ago and got rid of. Then when I took my J45 to him for my lesson he said "Oh my what did you do?" then he played it and said "That is a great guitar" and when I was noodling on something he taught me a while ago on the J45 he said, "That tune sounds great on that guitar." so I guess it's a common attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 The 70's DID tarnish a few reputations, Gibson and Martin among them. (although Martin seems to get more praise than bashing over there) Guild escaped those down years, but the 70's ware not kind to some makers. It hurt reputations, and may be the cause of a lot of that bashing over there. If you want to have some fun over there, mention that you have $20,000 to spend on a custom built guitar. (say from a inheritance) Tell them you only play in open tunings, new age music, or mindless endless doodlings in open tunings, and that you want a guitar that can't be strummed, only fingerstyle, and it must have endless ringing overtones, and that it is a must that you can't sing along with it. THEN watch that particular clique come out of the woodwork and praise the Olsons, Somogyi, Ryan guitars. These are the same guys that claim this is the best guitar I've ever played, only to find it on the AGF Classifieds six months later, staying 6 months on the classifieds, and eventually selling at 30% of what they paid for them. Buyer's remorse from these guys is almost comical. They NEVER post on your threads if you ONLY bought a $3000 Martin, WAAAAAY beneath them.....lol.......This group of $20,000+ club of mutual admiration back slappers is the most humorous for me. I just don't understand the Gibson bashing over there. Always the same guys, virulent, acidic posts, I mean, how angry can you be over a brand you don't even own??? It is silly and a bit pathetic. In any manufacturing process there are going to be some fit and finish and quality control problems, but overall, Gibson is making the best guitars in their 109 year history. BUT, not for every one. So, it's not for you, why waste time dinging a guitar you don't even own? If you are into new age doodlings, sure, Gibson might not be right for you, but in the right hands, even THAT rubbish would sound good on a Gibson. Especially a Rosewood Gibson. But the bashing over there persists, so, like others have mentioned, play a Gibson, or 20, until you find one you like, if you don't move on to Taylor or Martin or a $20,000 custom luthier built guitar, or whatever floats your boat, and let other's play what they want. Most accomplished, and professional, and hobby players have more than one brand of guitar, so the fanboy/troll debate is really silly. Brand blanketing is just silly. Play and buy the ones you like, and leave the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 a good acoustic, is a good acoustic. it matters NOT what it says on the head stock. I have two Taylors, (A GS that is a total canon, and a 314CE that is a fine working mans axe) They work great for me, I like them, I don't care if the members of a forum (any forum) don't like them, Honestly I could care less. I play out a lot and I get tons of compliments on the sound I get out of them, and they play fantastically. Funny thin is, never have I heard, Gee Ray, you'd sound so much better with a Gibson. I also have a 78 Yari dreadnaught (recently re-fretted) that would KILL anything you put up against it. having said that, would I love to own a J45s, and an SJ200? Absolutely, the cost just shies me away. someday, may just bust out and score one, ....if I ever have the extraordinary amount of cash that buying one requires.... MHO Only,-- Don't listen to the haters, what you like, and what works for you is all you really need to be worried about. Peace and Rock On! /ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalex Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 The 70's DID tarnish a few reputations, Gibson and Martin among them. (although Martin seems to get more praise than bashing over there) Guild escaped those down years, but the 70's ware not kind to some makers. It hurt reputations, and may be the cause of a lot of that bashing over there. If you want to have some fun over there, mention that you have $20,000 to spend on a custom built guitar. (say from a inheritance) Tell them you only play in open tunings, new age music, or mindless endless doodlings in open tunings, and that you want a guitar that can't be strummed, only fingerstyle, and it must have endless ringing overtones, and that it is a must that you can't sing along with it. THEN watch that particular clique come out of the woodwork and praise the Olsons, Somogyi, Ryan guitars. These are the same guys that claim this is the best guitar I've ever played, only to find it on the AGF Classifieds six months later, staying 6 months on the classifieds, and eventually selling at 30% of what they paid for them. Buyer's remorse from these guys is almost comical. They NEVER post on your threads if you ONLY bought a $3000 Martin, WAAAAAY beneath them.....lol.......This group of $20,000+ club of mutual admiration back slappers is the most humorous for me. I just don't understand the Gibson bashing over there. Always the same guys, virulent, acidic posts, I mean, how angry can you be over a brand you don't even own??? It is silly and a bit pathetic. In any manufacturing process there are going to be some fit and finish and quality control problems, but overall, Gibson is making the best guitars in their 109 year history. BUT, not for every one. So, it's not for you, why waste time dinging a guitar you don't even own? If you are into new age doodlings, sure, Gibson might not be right for you, but in the right hands, even THAT rubbish would sound good on a Gibson. Especially a Rosewood Gibson. But the bashing over there persists, so, like others have mentioned, play a Gibson, or 20, until you find one you like, if you don't move on to Taylor or Martin or a $20,000 custom luthier built guitar, or whatever floats your boat, and let other's play what they want. Most accomplished, and professional, and hobby players have more than one brand of guitar, so the fanboy/troll debate is really silly. Brand blanketing is just silly. Play and buy the ones you like, and leave the rest. Agree with you. I remember one poor guy who posted his budget Halcyon guitar($900 base) build in the custom section of the AGF. He got almost no replies or interest. There is a definite snob atitude on the AGF towards Gibsons or anything factory built for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Agree with you. I remember one poor guy who posted his budget Halcyon guitar($900 base) build in the custom section of the AGF. He got almost no replies or interest. There is a definite snob atitude on the AGF towards Gibsons or anything factory built for that matter. There is a lot of snoberry on the AGF, but thats exactly what makes it so fun and really stirring up the snobs .... its my favourite past time on there ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalex Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 There is a lot of snoberry on the AGF, but thats exactly what makes it so fun and really stirring up the snobs .... its my favourite past time on there ! Aussies are the best in the world at winding people up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vacamartin Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 GeneralDreedle.....there is a hard core group of Gibson fans on the AGF, myself included. All Forums have their own slant on the big companies. The AGF is more of an all encompassing group. That's why their are Forums like this for the hard core Gibson fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Certain elements of the AGF are indeed like a bunch of early teenagers in the showers checking out who has the biggest, that custom section in particular. But, each to their own an all that... if it makes them happy. You find the same types of folk on photography forums, cycling forums and so on... Typically I'll only jump in on a bit of Gibson bashing when I see it's that 'age old grudge' mentioned earlier. I've no financial interest in Gibson so it's not really up to me to defend the honour and play internet guardian. If someone posts they tried a bunch of recent Gibsons and thought they were garbage then fair enough, but when it's based on a low point such as the Norlin era, it's hardly fair comparison. Loads of 'noobs' use these places too, so a lot will look around, read such nonsense, regard it as fairly factual then anecdotally pass this off on other forums etc... if folk see something often enough it sinks in. I've said it loads of times before, but it's only strangers opinions, on a somewhat common interest, do you really care what a snooty bugger plays and pays? Youtube is full of clips of the buggers struggling with D, G & A on the most expensive of guitars available, your soul can be saved by viewing some of the most talented people on cheap crappy guitars as a timely reminder that it's not the tools but the skills. As much as I enjoy them, I'd swap all my Gibson's for a cheap beater in exchange for the right skillset. Anyway, go to the AGF, enjoy it for what it is and remember to value most of the info in accordance to what you paid to read it, i.e., it's free.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaldreedle Posted July 3, 2013 Author Share Posted July 3, 2013 Thanks, the history about this is interesting, about how the forum started, etc. I obviously don't listen to what other opinions are, because my own guitar teacher trashed Gibsons (he actually said the quality wasn't great, but if you found a good one go for it), but I ignored him, bought one anyway and he was totally won over. I guess maybe it's still the honeymoon period, but like I said, at the GC store here in Seattle I thought all the Gibsons there; J35, Hummingbird, Songwriter, AJ -- sounded great, so I'm having trouble understanding the things about Gibsons being inconsistent or not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Oh, you guys. I do agree that it does seem that the amount of discussion at AGF is often relative to the price tag of the guitar. But try counting the number of threads here where you see "dull" "dead" or "lifeless" used to describe Gibsons somebody tried out - more often as not at Guitar Center. Or try doing a search for threads posted here discussing questionable quality control issues. Geez, pickguard placement alone would take up several pages. Then, if you have the guts, try putting up a post deifying Taylors. And yeah, I am guilty as anybody and will be the first to describe them as beloved by metrosexual electric guitar players with girlie fingers (I still like that one). Thing is much of what is complained about going on over at AGF goes on here as well. But I will say somehow we really do seem to come off more pleasant about it. Just shows you that maybe it is true that the nicest people like Gibsons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichG Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Ford, chevy.... Corvette, viper....Yankees, mets......Gibson, Martin....and the world keeps turning I usually take my D18 to the monthly bluegrass jam, just to fit in even though it's not my favorite guitar. One day I decided to bring my 1939 Gibson J55. I asked one of the better players to try it so I could hear it from the front played by a good flat picker. His response was "I'm not a Gibson guy." I agree with the statement that there are really only two kinds of guitars; the ones that sound good and all the rest. I try to own the ones that sound good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Thing is much of what is complained about going on over at AGF goes on here as well. True, I got called a basher and an apologist inside one week, a while back... by the same person even.... Like ANY manufacturer, they're not above a valid criticism, but 'historical grudge' based criticism is just misinformation. If warranty work claims were higher at Gibson than that of the competitors they would indeed be doing something wrong. Legend has it they're selling everything they make and almost backlogged with the demand, so it would seem perhaps they aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby b Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 So this will show that I'm new to guitar forums, but whenever I hear Gibson discussed on AGF there is a more than sizable contingent that denigrates the consistency of Gibson, or they're hardly mentioned at all when people are asking for recommendations, it's either Taylor Taylor Taylor or Martin or the Santa Cruz, Collings people. Is there a history to this on the forum or what? I'm asking it in this forum because I wanted some non AGF answers. I'm just surprised because when I was going through my buying process at GC here in Seattle all the Gibsons sounded great and my J45 Custom has been fantastic. Screw the AGF i say ...... bunch of bloody whining, brainwashed, idiot, Martin koolaid sippin' .... oh Martin oh Martin oh Martin .... fanboyzzz I never want to own a Martin in fear of becoming a "Martin Owner".....does sumpin' to yer brain ......gaaaaaah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Shhhhhhh!!! Its a secret ! Don't you guys understand? Without the uninformed naysayers, the market for used Gibsons would go through the roof, and acquiring would just get tougher. I say, let 'em keep it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Shhhhhhh!!! Its a secret ! Don't you guys understand? Without the uninformed naysayers, the market for used Gibsons would go through the roof, and acquiring would just get tougher. I say, let 'em keep it up. So it is all part of the conspiracy to keep the Gibson price down? Perfect then! And a lot of the vintage(ish) Gibsons are reasonable priced, so keep up the trawlin! And to add my 2 cents, I played every National Reso in a local shop, a new Hummingbird and an old 68 J50 that sounded great but the neck was the size of a pencil, a few others inlcuding some Martins and then I asked the salesguy for the dreaded Taylor of his choosing, and he had seen me play a bit by that time, and he gave me this whopping great thing that must have been a giant jumbo with the strangest, flattest neck with strings on a different plane altogether.....I think he had already pegged me as from the 'Lost Cause' department....I threw it back to him and asked for the smaller model medium price number and it was very nice.....but I bought a National Tricone.... BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Ahhhhhh...the national Tricone........congrats!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerohead Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Especially a Rosewood Gibson. Why did ya have to make the Rosewood crack? I was right there with ya up to that point? I think I'll go back to the AGF where they understand me more than you Hog Snobs! Just let me fit in! Lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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