Sgt. Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Is there any truth that a guitar's wood can be 'opened up' by applying vibration, artificial or natural vibration? The argument here is that old guitars sound better than new guitars do because they have been broken in. But what does 'breaking in' mean, playing it a lot? Some players are of the belief that this aging process can be sped up with devices that vibrate the wood on the guitar to simulate years of playing. Reference an article in Aug. 2013 Guitar Player Mag. p. 138. 'Chatter' by Gary Brawer (Acoustic Tips and Tricks: Get the Most from Your Guitar Tech by "Speaking Repairman"): The article discusses ways of soncially aging a guitar to give it that vintage 'broken in' sound. Vibration is the key: put your guitar in front of your speakers and blast away (as the article suggests)! Or, there's a device on the market called a ToneRite which is basically a vibrator for your guitar. The author of the article swears by testing that the difference from applying the ToneRite is noticeable (after only five days)! (Why isn't Gibson doing this at the factory?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Because it's total fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riptide Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 This is an interesting topic :) I'll love to see what people say! I've never owned any vintage guitars... but it seems like when it comes to Guitars and Amps the broken in ones just sound better. I have no idea what the technical reason for it is though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Is there any truth that a guitar's wood can be 'opened up' by applying vibration, artificial or natural vibration? Yes.....I usually use a pick; the wood opens right up........... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Yes.....I usually use a pick; the wood opens right up........... . Nice! It is good to see you here! Original poster: It's dogma. You either believe a young man walked on water and made lunch for 500 out of one smelt or you don't. It's the same thing, you either believe that about guitars, or you don't. I've been around them a long time, I have seen no reason to believe it, there were and are plenty of old, opened up, seasoned, naturally sonically aged, sweated on by Leo himself guitars that sound likea ss. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzoboy Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I was reading an article about this topic quite some time ago in Vintage Guitar Magazine and they spoke to one of the more respected acoustic guitar builders and they said that they use the sonic wave generation with all of their new guitars and that judging from the readings that they are getting on their specialized monitoring equipment,the sonic generators do make a very noticeable difference in the response and presence of their guitars since they adopted this process. I can see how it would work because an acoustic guitar does acquire a much better tone after years of constant playing and it has been attributed to the vibrations of constant playing "opening up" the wood.It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to see that artificially produced soundwaves and vibrations having the same desired effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buxom Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Yes. Totally true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quapman Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I am basing this on absolutely nothing but my opinion and my years on the planet. I remember hearing this "theory" in my youth(I'm 50+ now so my youth was 30+ years ago),, this is nothing new or revolutionary. From my experience this is my "observation",, not fact,, just my observation. Electric(solid body) guitars,, I think it's a complete load of crap. Acoustic guitars on the other hand,, I think it holds some merit. I have 2 older acoustics,, an 85, and a 99. Neither of them particularly special. I think one is a ply top and one is a solid top.. don't care,, not going to check. But,, I really think,, that the age of them has opened up "something" in them.. To me,, they seem to sound way better. And they sound better than lots of newer more expensive ones hanging in the showroom. That said, I don't think it has a damn thing to do with vibration, or playing it. Or anything to do with "opening up" the wood. I think it has more to do with the way the wood ages naturally. And is nothing you can artificially create. I say this because my guitars sat in the the basement, in their cases, for damn near 20 years. They had zero vibration. (for those who don't know me I quit playing for almost 20 years.) So if you are asking my opinion? I say that yes,, there is something to the natural aging of wood that enhances the acoustic tones of a guitar. But there is nothing that has to do with the "vibrations" caused from playing it. Just my 2 bits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quapman Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Because it's total fiction. If I could plus that,, I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturn Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Is there any truth that a guitar's wood can be 'opened up' by applying vibration, artificial or natural vibration? The argument here is that old guitars sound better than new guitars do because they have been broken in. But what does 'breaking in' mean, playing it a lot? Some players are of the belief that this aging process can be sped up with devices that vibrate the wood on the guitar to simulate years of playing. Reference an article in Aug. 2013 Guitar Player Mag. p. 138. 'Chatter' by Gary Brawer (Acoustic Tips and Tricks: Get the Most from Your Guitar Tech by "Speaking Repairman"): The article discusses ways of soncially aging a guitar to give it that vintage 'broken in' sound. Vibration is the key: put your guitar in front of your speakers and blast away (as the article suggests)! Or, there's a device on the market called a ToneRite which is basically a vibrator for your guitar. The author of the article swears by testing that the difference from applying the ToneRite is noticeable (after only five days)! (Why isn't Gibson doing this at the factory?) Someone didn't read the "Do we simply have too much money?" thread. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I think there may be, to a certain extent, a bit of "truth" but not necessarily the "truth" claimed. Even with steel, we know that an engine will settle in after some use. My bet on this, and perhaps a part of "why" some folks are convinced, is that one sees a settling-in of such pieces as the bridge assemblies on an acoustic which could have a degree of effect on sound if there's a somewhat tighter connection among parts - more on some and virtually none on others. As for woods... aging certainly does have an effect on woods or they'd simply be cut from just-cut logs and made into guitars and a host of other products. That doesn't happen - but neither in most cases does one age wood for musical instruments for a century. So a degree of change in tone in an all-wood acoustic guitar over time is likely at a minimum. I recall a somewhat parallel thread where L5Larry commented that even laminated archtops will age-in over time, but that it's a lot longer time than a solid wood guitar. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Again? Acoustic : Yes. Electric : No. I have two acoustics. One I've owned for 33 years and it's mellower nowadays than when it was new. The other is about 70 years old but, as I wasn't the original owner, I don't know how it sounded when IT was new... Electrics I've mentioned in the other thread. Someone didn't read the "Do we simply have too much money?" thread. :) Actually, saturn, he posted in it several times. Perhaps short-term memory loss is the culprit here. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sellen Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Well it's nice to think that it matters, but i think not A little off topic, does smoke affect tone. I mean in a bad way, Guitar cancer=Deadwood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Posted July 12, 2013 Author Share Posted July 12, 2013 Someone didn't read the "Do we simply have too much money?" thread. :) yeah actually i did and it raised some eyebrows. not judging right or wrong, but merely presenting the facts. i myself wouldn't invest in such a thing. :) seems to me it's the 'broken in' feeling that is desirable. new guitars are stiff, speakers too, running shoes for that matter. but if you put the vibrator on your head for twenty minutes a day at A 440 you can hear aliens communicating from outerspace ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 ...seems to me it's the 'broken in' feeling that is desirable. new guitars are stiff... I completely agree, Sgt., that virgin 'boards need conditioning to get them to play nicely; especially where rosewood f'boards are concerned. One of my LPs was 'brand-new' even although it was already 16 years old when I bought her. NOS. Long story. Anyhow, it sounded fantastic unplugged as it was so I was happy to take it home. The 'board, though, is only now becoming 'quick' as it was very dry and had a bit of a 'friction' thing for quite a long time. It doesn't help that I don't use it nearly as often as I should. Similar but different was the case with a maple-'boarded Squier Tele I was given. When new it had a satin-finish coat but with use it's now very glossy indeed but in a very nice way. Normally I can't abide Fender's habit for poly-coating maple 'boards but the satin on this one has worn so smooth as to be rather wonderful. So thinly has it been coated it's now starting to wear off the lower parts through regular use in proper fashion. Same story with the rear of the neck BTW. It's by far and away the nicest maple 'Fender' neck I've ever owned. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buxom Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 if you put the vibrator on your head for twenty minutes a day at A 440 you can hear aliens communicating from outerspace ... What kind of vibrator and which head? I've been doing this for years and have yet to hear aliens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 What do aliens from outer space sound like? I think some of us over-estimate our ability to objectively interpret sound. I suspect that our ability to recall the exact timbre of sound is no better than our ability to recall the exact shade of a color. Most of us can't even tune our guitars without a tuner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manse Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Yamaha do this to their acoustics... A.R.E - Acoustic Resonance Enhancement There is no question that the sonic properties of wood change, often improving, as the wood ages. Although time is the only factor that can truly age anything, Yamaha embarked on an in-depth research program to try and understand what changes were actually occurring in the wood, and how that information might be applied to improve the characteristics of younger woods. After years of development the Yamaha guitar, Acoustic Resonance Enhancement (A.R.E.) process was born, and is gradually being implemented in more instruments as its benefits are being proven.To clarify, A.R.E. is not specifically an aging process. The changes it brings about in the wood are similar to those observed in aged wood, but the focus is resolutely on achieving superior sound rather an "aged" sound. A.R.E. has proven to be extraordinarily successful in optimizing the sonic qualities of wood destined for use in Yamaha guitars. This unique process causes physical changes at the cellular level, most directly affecting the wood's cellulose and hemicellulose. Sound transmission is Significantly enhanced: the wood becomes more responsive to input from the strings, and transmits the vibration of the strings with greater accuracy. In sonic terms, the harsh "edge" that is often heard in young wood is reduced, while the sustain characteristics at different frequencies are brought into a more balanced, well-coordinated relationship. The only way to really understand the effect is to hear it, but expect to experience a crisp attack with a clean high end that is smoothly coupled to harmonically rich mids and lows with remarkable sustain. The sum result is outstanding balance with ideal response and sustain throughout theYamaha guitarsfrequency range. Marketing, or science? Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 As an older Korean friend once told me when we were talking business ... "Selling points..." I found it interesting that even the "selling points" didn't claim it was truly aging the wood. Heat? Cold? Cold plus removal of atmosphere? I could feature a number of games one might play. Steels are tempered with heat but... when such things became possible, also in deep cold. At what point is something objectively "better?" Or only subjectively "better?" m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 ...At what point is something objectively "better?" Or only subjectively "better?"... I read an article a long time ago where someone questioned why age is automatically assumed to improve a guitar's tone. Why? Why should wood getting older automatically equate to it becoming a 'Better' instrument? Why not 'Worse' for once in a while? Is there a reason? P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 IMHO it's because we tend to see the better examples from a prior era, and not the poorer ones. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookieman15061 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Why? Why should wood getting older automatically equate to it becoming a 'Better' instrument? Why not 'Worse' for once in a while? Is there a reason? P. Viagra? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I am pretty sure my rig got sonically aged after I played for 5 hours last night, I have not played for that long in months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aster1 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 if you put the vibrator on your head for twenty minutes a day at A 440 you can hear aliens communicating from outerspace ... What kind of vibrator and which head? I've been doing this for years and have yet to hear aliens. Why do you need the vibrator to hear the aliens. I thought everyone could already hear them? Aster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riptide Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Most of us can't even tune our guitars without a tuner. I hope you are talking about not being able to tune to 440hz and not about getting all the strings in tune with each other... :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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