Managerial Jobs

[Izzy]

Hi all,

 

Most of you know I am a nurse and I love the hands on aspect of it. I'd also love to teach.

 

For reasons I don't want to go into I may be forced into a major in healthcare management (unless I chose to not get a masters at all and keep a BSN).

 

If any of you are in management I'd like to know what it is like for you:

 

Good? Bad? Ugly?

[Bender 4 Life]

Hi all,

 

Most of you know I am a nurse and I love the hands on aspect of it. I'd also love to teach.

 

For reasons I don't want to go into I may be forced into a major in healthcare management (unless I chose to not get a masters at all and keep a BSN).

 

If any of you are in management I'd like to know what it is like for you:

 

Good? Bad? Ugly?

 

from what i've seen from 30+ yrs in the private sector,

management = passing your tasks downhill so you can go play w/your uber expensive toys.

if something good happens, you take the credit, if something bad happens, you blame an underling.

 

somebody prove me wrong.

[Guest Farnsbarns]

Well, imx you take a different approach, your head is always partially in your job, day and night. You take ultimate responsibility for everything your team does, and measuring performance based on prescribed KPIs and report to other managers after interpreting said information, making adjustments to performance by designing processes and coaching staff members. You take on the unpleasantness of disciplining staff. You are often disliked, or at least approached differently and have to deal with negative types who are anti managment and have a them-and-us attitude and then wonder why they aren't progressing. These people usually don't apply themselves and shirk work by any and all means necessary. Of course, if you are lucky your remuneration will reflect this extra stress and responsibility.

[brc]

I myself was in heavy construction, building everything from hospitals to 45 story high rise buildings, and usually had between 50 up to 400 people working for me,

It can be a balancing act to motivate the crews or workers without coming across as a S.O.B.

You have to satisfy the owners, their schedules, changes, costs over runs, and still have a firm hand with all the crews their excuses for not making their schedules, arriving for work on time or if they even showed up.

I think the best advise I could give is, dont ever forget that at one time you were one of them <meaning workers> and dont let the management position go to your head.

Whether it is the type of work I did for so long, or any other type of management position, you lead by example.

Be firm, but be fair.

Not sure if this is what you were asking about, but I hope it is

[matonanjin]

I'm not sure I understand what you are asking/saying. You're in healthcare and "forced into a major in healthcare management (unless I chose to not get a masters at all and keep a BSN)."

 

They are sending you back to school to get a master's? If so, what's wrong with that?

 

But to give you my perspective, until I went back to graduate school (microbiology) I was in Cardiopulmonary physiology. I worked in a lab for several years and loved the "hands on", as you call it. I then was given the lab director position and enjoyed that as well. It was a completely different environment but I stilled enjoyed it. With the director position I was also given teaching responsibilities in the Respiratory Therapy school which I really enjoyed.

 

Of course, with the increase in responsibilities was a substantial pay raise which I didn't mind!

 

So just because you enjoy the the patient contact don't immediately discount management. I enjoyed both and you may as well. If you don't like the management I would think there will avenues to get back to patient care.

[Izzy]

I'm not sure I understand what you are asking/saying. You're in healthcare and "forced into a major in healthcare management (unless I chose to not get a masters at all and keep a BSN)."

 

They are sending you back to school to get a master's? If so, what's wrong with that?

 

 

I got into healthcare because I prefer touching poo than wearing "nice clothes". I prefer wound care to sitting at a meeting. I am anti-establishment BUT I know how to be super-social and make people laugh and like me, so I may survive. I just cringe thinking about screwing my hard workers over so I can get some kind of $ bonus $

 

I was in the FNP track (to become a primary healthcare provider), still am, actually, but for philosophical reasons I will not get into, I may choose not to complete the program. In order not to lose all of the money/effort I have invested in school, I could continue with school until I get a masters. The only masters my credits are any good towards (besides NP) is healthcare administration. I'm only 1/4 of the way in and I could quit now and save myself 12K and just curse my losses...or I could go into a field I think I'll hate BUT have a masters and a broader perspective as well as more employment opportunities?

 

I just do not know what to do. I know I can't be a floor nurse for ever. I love my patients but am tired of the effort already (its a physical job and I weigh less than 90lbs. I'm scared I'm gonna wear my body out). That's why I am trying to get perspective from ya'll, because I have very limited insight.

[quapman]

I don't think I can offer much insight. I will(and have) done a job I hate for the money. All my career path choices have been for mo money. And I'm ok with it.

 

That's why I have a life outside of work. I have no problem leaving work at work.

That said, I have made career choices for the sole purpose of challenging myself but mostly cuz I've topped out at my mo money scale. If I get bored, I will make a change so I don't go crazy.

 

I will never have millions.

I have no desire to feel satisfied with my work. My only desire is to have enough money to pay my bills and hopefully retire young and enjoy a large portion of my life doing what I choose and not what I have to.

 

So if I have any advice whatsoever I say.. mo money.

 

Wow,, really sounds like I hate my job..lol... Truth is,, I don't hate, I don't love it. It's work. It pays for my life outside of work.. Work is not my life,, I work to live. not the other way around.

[zigzag]

If you are looking at a mid-level management position, this can often be the most difficult situation of all. Your job will be made easier if upper level management is easy to work with and you work for a strong organization. Mid-level management can be even more difficult than being in a low level position- it is often easier to be told what to do than to tell others what to do. I have been told, even by women, that it is easier to work for men than women, but I'm not sure I know why. I suspect a good manager is gender independent.

 

I think there are general principles that make good managers:

 

1) You are an adult. Often, the people you manage act like children. Be firm but fair (as someone else said), and treat employees with respect and like adults.

2) There are two sides to every issue. Never settle a dispute or reprimand an employee before hearing both sides.

3) Never reprimand an employee around others, do it in private. Be professional and try to remain neutral. Remember, you must represent the best interests of the company while respecting the interests of the employee.

4) Always be positive. A good attitude always goes a long ways. Do not complain about about the organization in front of those you manage.

5) Always be receptive to listening to employees. They often know what goes on in the trenches much better than you, not only about the job, but also about the people.

6) Always thank your employees for their efforts and give credit where it is due.

7) Most people do not mind working overtime as long as it is not excessive, and they respect as much pre-notification as possible.

8) If possible, share the company's success with employees.

9) Be flexible and receptive, but decisive.

10) Lead by example.

11) Absorb pressure and find an effective way to release it outside of work- exercise and jamming!

12) Have fun! Work should not be drudgery.

[ChanMan]

Don't go into a career you hate. Ever. Period.

 

There is not enough money in the world to make what that will do to you worth it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ETA

 

 

For the record I have been in management. At the lowest levels it is a lot like getting chewed out from above and below. If you're a strong leader, you will be wildly successful given the right folks. I would probably go into management again, if the right opportunity presented itself, if that helps at all.

[charlie brown]

The only thing I can add, is that you have to be the type of personality

that enjoys managing, other people. If YOU don't enjoy it, it will be Hell,

for you, and the people around, and under you. And, trust me, they know...

and/or pick up on it, pretty quickly. Also, depending on one's "crew," it can

be quite rewarding, or...a complete nightmare! Someone, previously, said that

employees can be like "children." That's quite true. And, like a good parent,

you have to firm, fair, caring, and compasionate...but, you can never let them

doubt, at all, who's in charge.

 

Good Luck, on whatever you decide to do!

 

CB

[retrorod]

I got into healthcare because I prefer touching poo than wearing "nice clothes". I prefer wound care to sitting at a meeting. I am anti-establishment BUT I know how to be super-social and make people laugh and like me, so I may survive. I just cringe thinking about screwing my hard workers over so I can get some kind of $ bonus $

 

I was in the FNP track (to become a primary healthcare provider), still am, actually, but for philosophical reasons I will not get into, I may choose not to complete the program. In order not to lose all of the money/effort I have invested in school, I could continue with school until I get a masters. The only masters my credits are any good towards (besides NP) is healthcare administration. I'm only 1/4 of the way in and I could quit now and save myself 12K and just curse my losses...or I could go into a field I think I'll hate BUT have a masters and a broader perspective as well as more employment opportunities?

 

I just do not know what to do. I know I can't be a floor nurse for ever. I love my patients but am tired of the effort already (its a physical job and I weigh less than 90lbs. I'm scared I'm gonna wear my body out). That's why I am trying to get perspective from ya'll, because I have very limited insight.

 

Obviously Izzy, from this statement, you are a 'hands-on' worker! I am that 'type', myself....except, i handle wine....not poo! At times, however, I feel that I am being 'poo'd on'. I have recently been shifted over to a managerial position. I find it difficult to struggle-through training and managing other people......especially new hires. It seems easier to do the task myself rather than watch someone else struggle through it...

 

I really can,t help with your decision though....

[SweetMarie]

Twenty-odd years ago I was where you're standing albeit in a different field (Corrections).

As long as you're still working with "your" people (in your case nursing staff) as a primary or shift supervisor it's wonderful--you get to make all those decisions that YOUR supervisors never would once you have confidence in your ability. It's an amazing feeling, like flying.

But once you reach UPPER management and start dealing with people in suits who have never touched a bedpan (or worked a tier) whose only qualifications are a high-priced piece of paper and highly placed relatives and who are only concerned about the money and what's in it for them--it really starts to suck.

[rct]

The thing that chuckles me the most is the old "just do what you enjoy" rosy view of things. Somebody has to do everything or the world would be full of guitar players collecting unemployment.

 

I make really good money doing things I at best don't care about for a company I don't trust. The salary and benefits afford us the life we have, and I wouldn't trade it for anything. I'll keep at it until I retire, and then I'll have even more time for the life we have built for ourselves, off of jobs we didn't particularly even like, except for what they pay us to do them.

 

Whatever healthcare management place you could end up in Izzy, it is better than breaking your bones and muscles and spirit for the same nothing any other job affords as far as personal satisfaction goes. Trust me, you actually can buy personal satisfaction, you just buy it outside of work with the money they give you. And since I've done that too, I can assure you that playing music doesn't buy much satisfaction at all for 99% of the people playing music.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide and whichever direction you ever go in.

 

rct

[zigzag]

...I make really good money doing things I, at best, don't care about for a company I don't trust. The salary and benefits afford us the life we have, and I wouldn't trade it for anything. I'll keep at it until I retire, and then I'll have even more time for the life we have built for ourselves, off of jobs we didn't particularly even like, except for what they pay us to do them...

 

Amen, brother. People who love their jobs are lucky... and rare.

[matonanjin]

I just cringe thinking about screwing my hard workers over so I can get some kind of $ bonus $

 

 

If you think that is what management is about you are definitely going to hate it, be miserable and not be successful.

[Izzy]

If you think that is what management is about you are definitely going to hate it, be miserable and not be successful.

 

I started to topic so I could gain better insight. In a way I was being facetious but in a way it sort of speaks of my fears. I would love to be in a position where I can make things easier for my people. I've heard nurses say they miss a certain manager because she was so helpful and I respect my manager because she's impartial and firm without being mean...but aside from this, I don't know what its like in their dealings with what is above them or besides them. I am below the manager so I only relate to that interaction.

[rocketman]

1) You are an adult. Often, the people you manage act like children. Be firm but fair (as someone else said), and treat employees with respect and like adults.

2) There are two sides to every issue. Never settle a dispute or reprimand an employee before hearing both sides.

3) Never reprimand an employee around others, do it in private. Be professional and try to remain neutral. Remember, you must represent the best interests of the company while respecting the interests of the employee.

4) Always be positive. A good attitude always goes a long ways. Do not complain about about the organization in front of those you manage.

5) Always be receptive to listening to employees. They often know what goes on in the trenches much better than you, not only about the job, but also about the people.

6) Always thank your employees for their efforts and give credit where it is due.

7) Most people do not mind working overtime as long as it is not excessive, and they respect as much pre-notification as possible.

8) If possible, share the company's success with employees.

9) Be flexible and receptive, but decisive.

10) Lead by example.

11) Absorb pressure and find an effective way to release it outside of work- exercise and jamming!

12) Have fun! Work should not be drudgery.

 

Holy smokes. You just described a professor's job!! When I was 29 I was offered a VP position at a fairly large company. They offered me nearly twice the money I make now. Even though I do a lot of managerial stuff as a professor (I help run an 8 million dollar a year center and I'm the Associate Chair of the Department), I'll take the professor job over a company manager every time. It's mostly because of number 12. I do have a lot of fun. We're actually well paid too so I can't complain.

[btoth76]

Hello Izzy!

 

The most important factor of such positions, is to be able to quickly reply to any questions and addressed concerns, and do it efficiently. Hesitation is a major mistake You can make. Majority of managers are good at bullsh!ting, and use common phrases. But only managers appreciate that skill. Workers, customers see through this. Make Yourself a favour and rather be honest with everyone - on long term it pays off! It builds confidence towards You.

 

Also You must be able to organise Your duties and resources (including employees You are responsible for) without losing track and ALWAYS be up to date regarding the status of the area You are responsible for.

 

Often, managers don't have deep insight on the professional aspects of activites done by the people they lead. It definitely helps if You have good communication with them and trust each other. Involve the professionals in decisions You make.

 

Show strenght, determination, but remain human. Be good at Excel :)

 

Good luck... Bence

[Cougar]

Most of you know I am a nurse and I love the hands on aspect of it.

 

I can identify with that, but in a different field. I used to work as a closed-caption editor, watching (transcribing) TV shows all day. It was a great job. Office was right inside Sunset Gower Studios in Hollywood. Member of CWA - Communication Workers of America. Worked on TV shows, movies, music videos (I especially liked my work on Blues Traveler's Runaround video. ) Pay wasn't great, but I enjoyed doing the work... and having it show up on TV, home movies, and music videos.

 

So I was good at it, and before long I was asked if I wanted to take a supervisory spot. Well, yeah, I guess. So I did that. For a couple weeks. Problem was, I went from doing nothing but captioning to doing no captioning at all. But that was the part of the job I liked, the captioning "performance." So I said screw this and went back to being a caption editor. (Some years later, I met a chick on the internet, married her, and moved to the Wild West. )

[surfpup]

I got into healthcare because I prefer touching poo than wearing "nice clothes". I prefer wound care to sitting at a meeting.

 

Call me crazy, but it sounds like you are answering your own question right here.

[Izzy]

Call me crazy, but it sounds like you are answering your own question right here.

 

Problem is...I shan't be young forever and my body is going to wear out. I have no choice but to leave what I do eventually. I just wonder if it would be best to just become a clinical expert in something and say goodbye to the time and $ I invested in exchange for a cushier RN job where I don't get much more $ OR keep with school and potentially make more $.

[Dennis G]

I'll admit to not reading all of the answers to this thread, but I've basically been in management since I was an E4 in the Army in the late 60's. Here are my very basic attitudes/ideas towards management jobs:

 

Surround your self with people who are at least as good as you, preferably better. If you don't have a replacement in the wings, you'll never advance. Don't let your ego be so fragile.

 

With your own superiors, give credit where it's due when things go right, and take the blame when they go wrong. You are, after all, the person in charge. In doing so, you're reinforceing point #1.

 

Give your folks the authority and latitude to make their own decisions, and hold them accountable for their results. Above all, DO NOT Micromanage. If you do, you're not "managing", your directing and/or dictating.

 

No matter how many or how few people you have working for you, at any given point, probably 10 -15% of them on any given day will think you're the biggest a$$hole ever put on earth. Those people will change on pretty much a weekly basis. Let folks know why you make some of the decisions you do if they're "controversial". This isn't Kumbaya, folks. Get over it.

 

It's essentially a 24/7 job from a mental standpoint, and you're always "on".

 

Other than all of that, management is a piece of cake!

[surfpup]

Problem is...I shan't be young forever and my body is going to wear out. I have no choice but to leave what I do eventually.

 

I understand what you mean a little better now. I admit I know lots about education but little about medicine. But I have an aunt who's a nurse and does lots of travel with Project Smile and she's in her mid 60s. That said. some sort of clinical expert as you mentioned shouldn't be purely a desk job right? Gotta be a way to keep the patient contact and still move up. What about Nurse Practitioner? If I'm totally off base here, see previous "I know little about medicine" disclaimer. However, I'm likely to be learning as my daughter is intent on a career in medicine.

[milod]

Izzy...

 

Basically the "military" comment may be among the more appropriate in that each "unit," as in medicine, functions somewhat differently. In fact, even the same "unit" will change so significantly over time that if you've been away a while, you discover the old saying, "You can't go home again."

 

There also are two sorts of "management" in that one is more like a sergeant in the military or a construction foreman and one is more like the officer's paperwork. And in the final analysis, one who has messed in the "poo" can play a major role in the work better than one who hasn't.

 

This morning (yeah, it's Sunday and supposedly a "day off") I did a bit of work with a new "big" commanding officer for the area's Army National Guard engineering company. That's 160 folks. The new CO has this one and a batch of others that amount to some 850 or more soldiers, male and female, age 17 to around 60, in 7 units in 14 communities.

 

He's more or less "upper management" in the sense that he sets the standard for morale, training and readiness for folks who will fight forest fires, battle blizzards, build berms to protect from flooding - or go into combat zones to build roads and earth-walled camps after running through enemy bombs and bullets. He's served in combat zones.

 

But... he started as a 17-year-old enlistee helping to build military bridges. What's he emphasizing as the "brass?" Letting the sergeants work more directly and with more personal contact and hands-on training than on-line training and paperwork for the folks who have their hands literally and figuratively in the "poo." When he sees the soldiers enjoying their work and constantly getting better, he sez nice things to folks down the line. He wants to build a creative environment where the work itself is a reward. For what it's worth, I've known the guy since he was literally in diapers and he's doing about the same thing in his civilian "day" job.

 

I hear some of the comments here that the work is just for the money. Oddly a good management course will tell you that studies show that's secondary to what should recruit employees and definitely retains them: The work itself. Dissatisfiers are things such as micromanagement and a feeling that one is but an uncared-for cog by "managers" who only care about making enough cash to survive their own firing.

 

The thing is, whether your job is picking up "poo" from hospital rooms and take pride in ensuring patients under your care have a clean and comfortable bed, or whether your job is managing a nursing staff that takes pride in ensuring patients under your care have a clean and comfortable bed, you can see the job as dollar-drudgery or as tremendously rewarding.

 

Yeah, there's a crapload of politics to suffer. But even the most ignorant of "line workers" are aware of that; they just feel powerless and tend to be sour inasmuch as it brings change to their jobs. So...

 

I'm currently in about the lowest pay of my career, but I'm eating, and I have a new guitar or so a year. I've had people suggest I shouldn't put in the unpaid hours I do "for the company." That ain't why. I do it from personal pride at serving a role I think I can do as well or better than the beginners literally a third of my age who'd replace me. Right now "upstairs" mostly ignores me as long as I tell them my planning and meet deadlines.

 

I've been a "manager" and I'm back to "picking up poo" because I'm where I want to be at this point of time and position in life regardless of challenges both personal and professional. I freely admit I'd welcome a better paycheck, but that ain't really why I go to work in the morning.

 

So. I'd say if you look at the less "fun" aspects of any job from your personality's perspective, you probably won't enjoy it; if you look at the more "fun" and potentially personally rewarding (not in cash, either), you'll likely both enjoy it and do well.

 

In nursing, the difference in management is a potential of getting canned for political reasons or other reasons beyond your control because of your position -- and yet -- ain't that in the long run exactly what keeps a nurse in his or her job at the "line" level?

 

BTW, my one-time nurse wife's three hip replacements and now her new knee, etc., etc., likely would have taken her out of line nursing 20 years ago in her early 40s. She's done well as a journalist, community tourism and convention promoter and some other stuff after more than a dozen years of being a geriatric, psych and "regular" medical floor nurse...

 

I think you're wise at considering options. But consider also potential rewards as well as difficulties in those various options.

 

m

[Izzy]

@ milod

 

I am really taking your words to heart. I wish I could go the FNP (primary provider) route, but I feel as though life has taken me off that path for a reason and now I am disoriented and the only steady footing I can find is near a rosebush. Naturally, I'm scared I'm gonna land in thorns if I fall. I have looked at various articles and they all stress that my time at the front lines would be very beneficial.

 

Bottom line is, Bachelors is the new Masters and if I skip the Masters and just get a certification I may land a steady job but I will never be challenged, I will never see a substantial raise and eventually I may be bored. "Is that so bad?" I ask myself. "Will your pride allow such low standards? You don't have kids, dude, why not become something more?"

 

A friend of mine told me, "there are more jobs you can get with that degree than you are aware. The hospital isn't just nurse to manager to director to...up and up...there's a whole world of people doing things you didn't even know were necessary to run the system."

 

Maybe I find my niche somewhere I never knew existed...I just have to wait for the world to come into focus again. For now I'm still panicked.