saturn Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 This came as a real shock to me. I only recently upgraded my phone from an old brick to a "smart phone". Now I just got back from visiting my wife's family in VA, and while there we went into a grocery store called Kroger. I have never been in a Kroger before, and I purchased nothing while there this time. I was only in the store with my Sister-in-law as she bought some things. Today in my email is a Shopping Survey from Kroger! WTF? I'm not paranoid but I really don't like being "tracked" everywhere I go. It's bad enough being tracked with every online entry I make, but now every place I go in the real world is being watched? Does this bother anyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drog Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 This came as a real shock to me. I only recently upgraded my phone from an old brick to a "smart phone". Now I just got back from visiting my wife's family in VA, and while there we went into a grocery store called Kroger. I have never been in a Kroger before, and I purchased nothing while there this time. I was only in the store with my Sister-in-law as she bought some things. Today in my email is a Shopping Survey from Kroger! WTF? I'm not paranoid but I really don't like being "tracked" everywhere I go. It's bad enough being tracked with every online entry I make, but now every place I go in the real world is being watched? Does this bother anyone else? Get out the tin foil! But seriously, it is only going to get worse. Watch for ads to specifically change based on the people that walk by them, or t.v., etc. its already this way online, as you found out from stores farming data from cell phones. Everyday we are bombarded with advertising, so much so that it blocks out everything else. Is it too much, yes. Will it be changed, doubtful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Don't own a smart phone myself but my son does. He reported me of these things many times. They locate you everywhere, and paying cash won't help, they know you've been there. He is also sent messages advertising stores while walking by. :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Was wondering why I was getting adds from the XXX theater in town.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Yes it's a PitA. But it's also 21st century capitalism; to me it's sci-fi come true, for better and worse. I used to read about this sort of thing in old sci-fi books and short stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff-7 Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Turn off location services... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 If you have an iphone and turn off location services you wont be able to use find my iphone if you miss place it or have it stolen. So don't forget to turn it back on when you return from where ever it was that you don't want anyone to know about.... Just sayin'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis G Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 1984 has come and gone, but it's alive and well. Have you not noticed that all the banner ads on sites you visit are from places you've either bought from or have been to? I read recently where stores are now able to track where you are in the store so they can more accurately zero in on your interests. That's one of the reasons why my cell phone sits on my desk most of the time, unless I think I'm going to need it while I'm out. Edit: and don't forget about the "black boxes" that are in most cars these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brc Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I have heard about this, but it has never happened to me. Not sure why, but maybe one reason is I never take my phone into a store with me. If I miss a call, I will return it when I pick up the phone again. It is really getting out of hand if you ask me, question is, how far will this kind of crap go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karloff Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Was wonder why i was getting adds from the XXX theater in town.... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vacamartin Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 This came as a real shock to me. I only recently upgraded my phone from an old brick to a "smart phone". Now I just got back from visiting my wife's family in VA, and while there we went into a grocery store called Kroger. I have never been in a Kroger before, and I purchased nothing while there this time. I was only in the store with my Sister-in-law as she bought some things. Today in my email is a Shopping Survey from Kroger! WTF? I'm not paranoid but I really don't like being "tracked" everywhere I go. It's bad enough being tracked with every online entry I make, but now every place I go in the real world is being watched? Does this bother anyone else? Old fogeys like myself have many strange experiences with these "techno" devices. I have a cell phone that's so out of date, my carrier notified me that they won't be allowing a bunch of functions on it to work...anymore! I feel your shock about Kroger, it's just too intrusive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I know... just the other day TGIFridays sent me another coupon for a free entree with the purchase of any regular priced entree. Those baztards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturn Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 Ya know, it's not even the ads or spam that I mind. I can easily ignore them and might even find them useful at some point. But I can't help but thinking that this capability could be used for much more sinister purposes, either officially or unofficially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 1984 has come and gone, but it's alive and well. Have you not noticed that all the banner ads on sites you visit are from places you've either bought from or have been to? I read recently where stores are now able to track where you are in the store so they can more accurately zero in on your interests. That's one of the reasons why my cell phone sits on my desk most of the time, unless I think I'm going to need it while I'm out. Edit: and don't forget about the "black boxes" that are in most cars these days. Google and many other "pay per click" advertising services offer a product called Remarketing to their advertisers. This means that the cookie they put on your computer is able to identify you as someone who shopped at that site and present you with their latest ad/offer. They can't identify you. They can't say you shopped on site X and site Z, they can't tell how much you spent, or how often. Everyone has the option of turning off cookies and in Europe, any site using this has to get your explicit consent, this is slightly softened in the Uk in that consent can be implied (buried in Ts and Cs you have to go looking for although they must be linked from every page). I really take the view that when someone is surprised by something like this they have been self negligent. If you're going to buy and use connected technology and not read and understand terms, you're asking for trouble. Like buying a power saw and being surprised that it can hurt you. None of these things are happenening without your permission, you're just giving that permission unwittingly and unfortunately that's your fault. How often do we click "I accept the terms and conditions" these days? And how many do you read? It's all in there ya know. There are other ways to educate yourself about online and connected privacy and your options as well. 99% of people go to a shop or call their network, order a smart phone, switch it on, tap yes, next, OK, next, I accept the terms and conditions, finish. I wonder how many research before the process? Very few I suspect. I can certainly see why all this bothers some people but there is no denying the benefits of targeted advertising to the consumer as well. Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 also....EVERY auto sold in the US post (IIRC) '98 has a tracking chip built into the computer that's tamper proof. wanna get really 'noid? watch the "Americas Book Of Secrets" series episode "Big Brother". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brundaddy Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Ya know, it's not even the ads or spam that I mind. I can easily ignore them and might even find them useful at some point. But I can't help but thinking that this capability could be used for much more sinister purposes, either officially or unofficially. It already is. You know how "contractors" like Blackwater are increasingly doing US military's dirty work? Same goes for CIA & NSA (recall that Snowden worked for Booz Allen). Google is a CIA contractor. Consider switching to www.duckduckgo.com ... Hell, the ads change languages based on what people in the background are saying, even when you're not using the phone (the mic is always transmitting). If I go to a bank in Little Armenia, it switches to Armenian or Russian; in Thai Town it's Thai, etc. Welcome to the matrix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 What's funny is that 10 years ago or so, folks would suggest we're all involved in "right wing" or "left wing" conspiracies by writing this way. Bottom line is that it's apolitical; the government no matter which "slant" it may have now or in the future, is keeping track of all the law-abiding folks while politics play games on the fringes to keep the majority of us from noticing just how much we have lost in terms of privacy and in ways, even true "ownership and control" of our communications, our digital files - even our vehicles. Kinda like the frog in a pan of water on the stove... doesn't realize stuff is going wrong until he's too cooked to escape. Question for us here is, "Is this a political issue? And since stuff like government snooping bothers most of us regardless of politics, what can we do?" Well, yeah, it's political. Yeah, most folks on the right and the left are concerned for a while until another plane crash or baby saved from cancer. The Russians, the Chinese - we're all increasingly in the same game. Yeah, it's what happens when we have this sort of technology and folks get used to the advantages while ignoring what it does to, rather than for them. OTOH - think of this: it all may be moot - just like the "unsinkable" nature of the Titanic. In 1859 a solar flare hit the earth with such strength that telegraph service was knocked out. Yup, the simplest electric communication we can today imagine. Some telegraph systems were hit in the opposite manner, with them still sending and receiving after the batteries were disconnected! Were it to happen today, some estimates are that it would cost "us" around $3 trillion. Frankly I think that's a vast understatement of the potential of what it'd do to how we do business on a daily basis. Good? Bad? How define things as either one, whether it's the "uncle's got you on a string" - or if it's "sorry, we can't even take your cash because our computer register is down." As an old country boy, I just chuckle at the thought - 'cuz I'll likely be dead before the cell phone snooping is any sorta problem - I figure certainly within 15 years as the wrinkles in my face and grumpy visage are increased. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brundaddy Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 "Boiling frogs" is how I see it also. A footnote from "From PSYOPS to MindWar" by one of the head honchos of the NSA, Michael Aquino: 19 Atmospheric electromagnetic (EM) activity: The Human body communicates internally by EM and electrochemical impulses. The EM field displayed in Kirlian photographs, the effectiveness of acupuncture, and the body’s physical responses to various types of EM radiation (X-rays, infrared radiation, visible light spectra, etc.) are all examples of human sensitivity to EM forces and fields. Atmospheric EM activity is regularly altered by such phenomena as sunspot eruptions and gravitational stresses which distort the Earth’s magnetic field. Under varying external EM conditions, humans are more or less disposed to the consideration of new ideas. MindWar should be timed accordingly. Per Dr. L.J. Ravitz: Electromagnetic field constructs add fuel to the assumption unifying living matter harmoniously with the operations of nature, the expression of an electromagnetic field no less than non-living systems; and that as points on spectrums, these two entities may at last take their positions in the organization of the universe in a way both explicable and rational ... A tenable theory has been provided for emergence of the nervous system, developing not from functional demands, but instead deriving as a result of dynamic forces imposed on cell groups by the total field pattern. Living matter has a definition of state based on relativity field physics, through which it has been possible to detect a measurable property of total state functions. (Ravitz, State-Function, Including Hypnotic States” in Journal of American Society of Psychosomatic Dentistry and Medicine, Vol. 17, No. 4, 1970.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Mac Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Yes it bothers me... And we all get duped into agreeing to it in a legal agreement when we accept the phone or phone contract just to get the things turned on... Combine that with the idea of lethal drones in the sky at the control of Government types you get the idea behind some real distressing conspiracy theories... There is no longer an expectation of privacy in life for any reason... I still have a dumb phone, but know every single website I visit and everything I do on a computer or cell phone is recorded somewhere with my location etc. Whatever Bullshiite justifications given; from market research, to whatever security reasons stated are all BS! It is "Big Brother" he is watching and he IS paranoid! When the government doesn't trust its citizenry and feels the need for such measures, there's a big problem with what it's up to! BTW, every single one of these entities from super markets to web ISP's record and report all information to the government! It's part of the agreements they sign for business and handed down to us in the agreements we simply click "I have read and agree to" in order to use some app or service... All legal and binding... All emails, IM's, forum posts, cell phone conversations, etc can be and are recorded or even read and watched by ISP personnel at any given moment... I knew some guys that worked at a local ISP back in the late 1990's and they routinely read emails that bounced thru their servers for kicks and laughed and joked about content... They were the trusted "Tech Support" personnel... Good luck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 It already is. You know how "contractors" like Blackwater are increasingly doing US military's dirty work? Same goes for CIA & NSA (recall that Snowden worked for Booz Allen). Google is a CIA contractor. Consider switching to www.duckduckgo.com ... Hell, the ads change languages based on what people in the background are saying, even when you're not using the phone (the mic is always transmitting). If I go to a bank in Little Armenia, it switches to Armenian or Russian; in Thai Town it's Thai, etc. Welcome to the matrix. Where do people get this stuff? Your mic is not listening, the targeted ads have simply picked up your location. Anyone who has an android phone and only a small interest and small amount of knowledge can find out exactly what their phone does. I even write my own kernels and, in the past, my own android based OS's. It is very simple to turn off location services if you really feel like it's a breach of privacy. All that said, I wouldn't trust apple, or their closed source system, as far as I could throw them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Yes it bothers me... And we all get duped into agreeing to it in a legal agreement when we accept the phone or phone contract just to get the things turned on... Combine that with the idea of lethal drones in the sky at the control of Government types you get the idea behind some real distressing conspiracy theories... There is no longer an expectation of privacy in life for any reason... I still have a dumb phone, but know every single website I visit and everything I do on a computer or cell phone is recorded somewhere with my location etc. Whatever Bullshiite justifications given; from market research, to whatever security reasons stated are all BS! It is "Big Brother" he is watching and he IS paranoid! When the government doesn't trust its citizenry and feels the need for such measures, there's a big problem with what it's up to! BTW, every single one of these entities from super markets to web ISP's record and report all information to the government! It's part of the agreements they sign for business and handed down to us in the agreements we simply click "I have read and agree to" in order to use some app or service... All legal and binding... All emails, IM's, forum posts, cell phone conversations, etc can be and are recorded or even read and watched by ISP personnel at any given moment... I knew some guys that worked at a local ISP back in the late 1990's and they routinely read emails that bounced thru their servers for kicks and laughed and joked about content... They were the trusted "Tech Support" personnel... Good luck... If you feel duped into accepting Ts and Cs when offered an opportunity to read them but were too lazy to do so then I'm afraid we have no future as a species. The idea that everything is someone else's responsibility has truly set in. Guess what, the someone else who you are making responsible is your government. How do they do that? The same way a parent does with a child, they keep an eye. People have the cart before the horse in their thinking here. MAKE YOUR SELF RESPONISIBLE OR PAY THE PRICE. Read the F'ing Ts and Cs and if you don't agree then DON'T AGREE. But guess what, everyone does because they want the smart phone, they want others to know and they enjoy the benefits so much they say "to hell with the Ts and Cs, I wanna get set up". Who do we blame for that? Well, you seem to blame the writer of Ts and Cs. Wake up people, you're permitting this and then complaining when it happens. I'm not saying you have to accept it, I'm saying you have a choice but follow the other lemmings of the cliff any way. Don't be surprised when the bottom of the cliff is rushing up towards you, fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturn Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 Well I have read T and C before, but unfortunately I don't have a law degree and it is very difficult to follow. Especially when they go on for 10 or more paragraphs. Then after you read it all, what do you do, hit Decline? Heck, I probably wouldn't be posting here if I was going to be that principled about things. But maybe it will come to that. Have to drop off all social media, use only cash, have no bank account, use no phones... And it's not like I even have that much to hide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Well I have read T and C before, but unfortunately I don't have a law degree and it is very difficult to follow. Especially when they go on for 10 or more paragraphs. Then after you read it all, what do you do, hit Decline? Heck, I probably wouldn't be posting here if I was going to be that principled about things. But maybe it will come to that. Have to drop off all social media, use only cash, have no bank account, use no phones... And it's not like I even have that much to hide. You're missing the point. 10 paragraphs? Can't be bothered, don't underatand, wont pay somone who does understand to explain and advise, fine, accept or decline but don't moan about the consequences later. And that's exactly why I don't use social networking, apple products, or unmodded android for that matter. Particularly Facebook. I challenge anyone who has read those terms to continue using it. You'd have to be certifiable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturn Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 Well, moaning about it is just the first step. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 You're missing the point. 10 paragraphs? Can't be bothered, don't underatand, wont pay somone who does understand to explain and advise, fine, accept or decline but don't moan about the consequences later. And that's exactly why I don't use social networking, apple products, or unmodded android for that matter. Particularly Facebook. I challenge anyone who has read those terms to continue using it. You'd have to be certifiable. While I use Facebook d quite a bit and thoroughly enjoy my iPhone 4, I agree with the statement wholeheartedly. If you can't be bothered to read the agreements I don't think anyone can really pay attention to your complaining afterwards. One thing I do find odd at least on my side of the pond, is that people over here get very worried over which company sent them a flyer for free bag of corn chips but they don't seem to be very concerned that the TSA is practically doing body cavity searches for 90-year-old grandmas or that the police are trying to make it illegal to videotape them doing her job or that some police departments are doing stop and Frisk as a point of common practice or that our new healthcare law federalize is your medical records or the video camera can now write you a traffic ticket. I don't remember signing any T and C for that. All of those things are far more disturbing to me then some random retailer trying to send me a coupon seeing if they can get me to come back. But I'm weird like that :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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