Mystery serial numbers

[sparquelito]

I have noticed, over lo these many years of frequenting guitar web forums, one odd thing;

 

Some guy will typically post some sparse information about a guitar, and then inquire as to where it was made, what year it was produced, and how much it is worth.

(On axecentral.com and myguitarbuddies.com, this seems to be the most common sort of posting, and it is the type of posting that keeps us the busiest.)

 

 

After some prodding for some more information (make, model, serial number) and perhaps a photo, eventually the poster will provide all or part of that.

 

Invariably though, the serial number provided will be offered in this manner:

"US97xxxx", or "E987xxx".

 

Or if there is a photo provided of the serial number, there will be digital X's covering the serial number, or a digital bar or smear even.

 

So here is the question.

Why in the world are people so reticent to post their guitar serial number online?

Especially when they came to the web forum in order to get help, advice, or information on that very guitar!

 

It's not like it's a Social Security Number or Bank Account Number.

Nobody's going to steal your identity (or your soul, even) from a guitar serial number.

And there's no way somebody's going to divine your home address from that same set of digits.

 

I don't get it, quite honestly.

 

Any ideas?

:mellow:

 

[rct]

People are terrified of the non existent counterfeiters that the internet has made into a virtual epidemic scourge on the earth. There are probably 1, 2 counterfeits for every 1000 guitars made.

 

There are stores full of guitars all over the world that will provide any counterfeiter with what they need. I just don't picture them sitting in their moms basement waiting for some fool to post their number so they can pounce on it for that next fake project.

 

But that's just me, I don't believe it for a second and I don't care about it one bit.

 

rct

[sparquelito]

People are terrified of the non existent counterfeiters that the internet has made into a virtual epidemic scourge on the earth. There are probably 1, 2 counterfeits for every 1000 guitars made.

 

There are stores full of guitars all over the world that will provide any counterfeiter with what they need. I just don't picture them sitting in their moms basement waiting for some fool to post their number so they can pounce on it for that next fake project.

 

But that's just me, I don't believe it for a second and I don't care about it one bit.

 

rct

 

 

rct,

 

The problem of counterfeit guitars is just a bit worse than you might believe, but that has nothing to do with the topic of this particular thread;

that of people's reticence to post their actual serial number, even when doing so would help to answer the questions they came hoping to resolve.

 

To your point, briefly, and this from your home-boy State of New Jersey:

http://thehub.musiciansfriend.com/bits/feds-seize-over-185-counterfeit-guitars-in-nj

 

That behind us, I truly would love to (if anybody is at all interested) discuss the original topic.

 

Unless doing so would cause fearful feelings, and compel visiting posters to scurry-away and lower their shades.

Furiously covering their guitar serial numbers with Sharpies and wall spackle, etc.

[rct]

rct,

 

The problem of counterfeit guitars is just a bit worse than you might believe, but that has nothing to do with the topic of this particular thread;

that of people's reticence to post their actual serial number, even when doing so would help to answer the questions they came hoping to resolve.

 

To your point, briefly, and this from your home-boy State of New Jersey:

http://thehub.musiciansfriend.com/bits/feds-seize-over-185-counterfeit-guitars-in-nj

 

Yes, I know. 185 guitars. You know how many guitars were made by Fender, Gibson, and Martin last year? Do the math, I stand by what I said.

 

If you don't know why people do that, why do you know that I am not right about why people do that?

 

rct

[Searcy]

Yes, I know. 185 guitars. You know how many guitars were made by Fender, Gibson, and Martin last year? Do the math, I stand by what I said.

 

If you don't know why people do that, why do you know that I am not right about why people do that?

 

rct

 

I think you're forgetting the rule. All Gibsons are assumed fake unless proven other wise.

 

Actually counterfeit Gibson are so rares around here that shop owner treat them like novelties. Fanny's music had one last year that was an old 70's Ibaneze Marauder that had been given the Gibson logo treatment. Good guitar.

[rct]

I think you're forgetting the rule. All Gibsons are assumed fake unless proven other wise.

 

Actually counterfeit Gibson are so rares around here that shop owner treat them like novelties. Fanny's music had one last year that was an old 70's Ibaneze Marauder that had been given the Gibson logo treatment. Good guitar.

 

You've seen at least one more fake than I have, and we've probably been around guitars a long time.

 

rct

[BigKahune]

... To your point, briefly, and this from your home-boy State of New Jersey:

http://thehub.musiciansfriend.com/bits/feds-seize-over-185-counterfeit-guitars-in-nj ....

 

From the article: "...the seizure resulted from shoddy packaging and craftsmanship that aroused the suspicion of customs agents. Inspecting the packages, authorities found business cards referencing a website where similar Chinese-made instruments can be bought at prices ranging from $200 to $500. Genuine versions of the intercepted counterfeits would sell from $2,000 to $54,000 according to authorities."

 

Outrageous. Agents came to this conclusion without checking out the serial numbers? That conclusion is based on incomplete evidence and is totally unscientific. . B)

 

 

.

[Karloff]

I have only seen 1 fake. Couple of years ago. Went over a friends who does repair work on guitars and amps in the area. From across the room it looked really nice. Closer i got the more it just didn't look right. Binding looked cheap. Frets not finished well. Wiring in cavity cheap and poorly done.

It belonged to a local musician who bought it from the Chibson website. He was having our friend make it playable. In person they look cheap.

[rct]

I have only seen 1 fake. Couple of years ago. Went over a friends who does repair work on guitars and amps in the area. From across the room it looked really nice. Closer i got the more it just didn't look right. Binding looked cheap. Frets not finished well. Wiring in cavity cheap and poorly done.

It belonged to a local musician who bought it from the Chibson website. He was having our friend make it playable. In person they look cheap.

 

What was the serial number?

 

rct

[Karloff]

It was stamped on the back of the headstock like it's supposed to be. I didn't bother looking up the ser. Number to see what it said cuz we already knew it was a fake. The owner was upfront about where it came from.

[sparquelito]

The original topic was an invitation to discuss how or why some people are overly-precious about posting their complete serial number, on the very occasion that they request online assistance in dating and valuating their guitar.

 

Not about the ever-growing counterfeit guitar industry.

You fellows have chosen to make it about the latter over the former.

 

I'm disappointed in you, to be quite honest.

Your behavior is most boorish and ungentlemanly.

 

And frankly beneath the dignity of the Gibson logo on the top left of your cherished web-forum:

"Gibson. Prestige, Quality, and Innovation."

 

If anybody has anything of substance to add (on the original topic) I am still looking forward to your input, thoughts, and opinions.

 

Thank you in advance for your thoughtful attention to the topic at hand.

[quapman]

Am I alone in this?

 

Am I alone?

 

 

Yes,, yes you are.

['Scales]

I think there genuinely would be SOME people doing it for exactly the reason mentioned, whether it makes sense or not is a different matter - so I think the responses made along those lines are quite fair enough to the question posed.

 

I have another theory (again, a reason why SOME might do it) that it protects me as the owner if I have by chance quite innocently purchased one that may have previously been reported as stolen (truthfully or otherwise) and thus avoid having someone come after me to claim it as their own...but that could be wrong too.

[Retired]

1462764063[/url]' post='1767876']

 

I have another theory (again, a reason why SOME might do it) that it protects me as the owner if I have by chance quite innocently purchased one that may have previously been reported as stolen (truthfully or otherwise) and thus avoid having someone come after me to claim it as their own...but that could be wrong too.

 

That would be my reason. Bought a used Gibson, you post photos and numbers and someone gets them and says it's there's and you must have stole it. But, I kept the bill of sale and date of purchase and guitar shop I bought it from. But maybe some don't keep or lose recites for proof of ownership? I don't Know.

[BigKahune]

The original topic was an invitation to discuss how or why some people are overly-precious about posting their complete serial number, on the very occasion that they request online assistance in dating and valuating their guitar.

 

Not about the ever-growing counterfeit guitar industry.

You fellows have chosen to make it about the latter over the former.

 

I'm disappointed in you, to be quite honest.

Your behavior is most boorish and ungentlemanly. ...

 

If anybody has anything of substance to add (on the original topic) I am still looking forward to your input, thoughts, and opinions. ...

 

Hmmm . . . As far as I can see responses have been made toward topic - serial numbers and counterfeits.

 

Toward your left handed request for more information: As you've seen me post on another thread - counterfeiters sometimes use 'stolen' genuine serial numbers on counterfeit guitars and folks don't want their serial stolen and end up with their guitar/serial being branded a fake. In evidence: A few years ago many counterfeits passed on the internet. It was apparent from the responses made by Gibson Administrators on threads here questioning authenticity that Gibson was keeping track of serials used on fakes and several times pointed out that this or that serial was to known to be used on fakes. If you were to try and sell your guitar, a potential buyer could ask Gibson C/S to verify the serial and it comes up as known to be used on fakes, no sale. This same scenario might be true for other brands too.

 

If you were a guitar, it's kind of like having your identity stolen. Oh, I forgot - nobody's going to steal your identity (or your soul, even) from a guitar serial number. That's probably why this information was ignored on another thread. . B)

 

 

<edit> BTW, on threads questioning authenticity, some folks here (including me) are reluctant to list mistakes in counterfeits because a small number of those posts seem to be fishing trips looking for tips on making counterfeits look more genuine - in particular threads started by a new one post member. Laugh and admonish, or ignore it if you will, but there it is. I tried.

 

 

.

[sparquelito]

 

I have another theory (again, a reason why SOME might do it) that it protects me as the owner if I have by chance quite innocently purchased one that may have previously been reported as stolen (truthfully or otherwise) and thus avoid having someone come after me to claim it as their own...but that could be wrong too.

 

That makes the most sense of all.

 

Thank you Scales and BigKahune, and thanks to all of you for your thoughtful and helpful responses.

 

My curiosity regarding this 'covering up the serial numbers' behavior is satisfied now.

 

I appreciate it.

:)

[pippy]

I don't know if it's the main reason but quite a few years ago there was a report of a small run of scams where photographs of a real Gibson guitar (say) were downloaded and posted by a third party as being for sale by the scammer. Everything - serial number included - would check out as genuine and the scam went ahead with the buyer sending the money but, of course, the seller not having the guitar.

 

I personally read of this happening at least three times and the advice offered up was to mask the last two-or-three digits of the serial so that if a prospective buyer wanted to confirm the serial number the scammer would not be in a position to offer-up the info.

 

As I say; I don't know if this is the main reason but it sort-of makes sense in a belt-and-braces manner.

 

Pip.

[btoth76]

Another possibility.

 

The serial number is the only objective identifier of an asset. Knowing the serial number, someone might produce a fake bill or trade contract and appear as the legitimate owner in front of the authorities...

 

Bence.

[Guest Farnsbarns]

Sparky, perhaps people take the view that until they know posting a serial number won't hurt them they assume it will, or at least might, so they don't. I would think you of all people would understand that.

[badbluesplayer]

Yeah - There's 15,285 guitars with pix of the backs of their headstocks on the Sweetwater site. Here's a pic of the serial number on the back of my Les Paul. I just showed the pic and now I'm scared to death.

 

.

[rct]

That would be my reason. Bought a used Gibson, you post photos and numbers and someone gets them and says it's there's and you must have stole it. But, I kept the bill of sale and date of purchase and guitar shop I bought it from. But maybe some don't keep or lose recites for proof of ownership? I don't Know.

 

That probably happens less than counterfeits do, but ok.

 

If you bought a hot guitar and the victim has the police report and all of that you are obligated to return it to them. Period.

 

But again, I've never heard of anyone recovering a stolen guitar by seeing a NGD! thread somewhere and alerting Law Enforcement. Ever.

 

rct

[Karloff]

Yeah - There's 15,285 guitars with pix of the backs of their headstocks on the Sweetwater site. Here's a pic of the serial number on the back of my Les Paul. I just showed the pic and now I'm scared to death.

 

.

 

 

 

BBD, you are fearless. a true maverick. my hats off to you ...

[Big Bill]

Yeah - There's 15,285 guitars with pix of the backs of their headstocks on the Sweetwater site. Here's a pic of the serial number on the back of my Les Paul. I just showed the pic and now I'm scared to death.

 

.

 

Oh the debauchery I am committing with this photo right now...

[rct]

Yeah - There's 15,285 guitars with pix of the backs of their headstocks on the Sweetwater site. Here's a pic of the serial number on the back of my Les Paul. I just showed the pic and now I'm scared to death.

 

.

 

 

I AM PERFECTING MY GLOVER FINEST TUNER GUITAR MACHINERYS

 

rct

[Searcy]

Assuming the rest of the guitar was a very very good counterfeit, I'm pretty sure I could just make up a Gibson SN that would fool most people with out having to actually copy one.

 

As for someone faking a sales receipt so they can come claim your guitar because you let the world know your SN... has this ever happened in the history of....... forever?....Ever?

 

 

Thank god the world isn't as evil as the inter-webs would have us think it is.