Why don't boutique g's hold value?

[JuanCarlosVejar]

I have noticed that guitars built by builders like Santa Cruz, Froggy Bottom ,Collings and others often show up as used guitars .

If these are supposed to be superiorly built instruments a)Why would someone give it up? (Assuming it is not for financial reasons) B) Why do that take such a hit in their used price?? (The woods used are finer and top quality)

 

 

 

Obviously factory guitars also take a hit as far as price but the collectibility aspects remains...

 

 

Any thoughts ?

 

 

JC

[MorrisrownSal]

I can only speak for myself.

 

I feel comfortable owning Martins and Gibsons, and even Taylors. Both made in America. Both with support who will stand by in case of warranty-related repairs. I cant imagine what extra "tonal-nuance" I would be able to discern with a boutique build, and thats not without even considering that they cost anywhere from 2 to 5 times the cost.

 

I also realize this is silly, as I dont have a track record of owning guitars all that long. However, I have needed the warranty three times between Gibson, Martin, and Taylor. They all stood by their product.

 

I am not sure I would have the same comfort level with a small boutique (see Merrill).

 

The Big Three are reasonably priced, and do it all. Used markets are established. Not so for the boutiques. Enough for me to stay away. Besides, my friends would beat me up for being a cork sniffer.

[blindboygrunt]

It's not a blanket rule but the boutique guitars market is funded by the well heeled. Not the sort of folk who look for second hand goods

 

BK's recent purchase was for a 60th birthday. For example. The feeling of having a boutique guitar would be special. By not appearing mass produced you'd get the feeling that you were buying a guitar that was made for someone else

 

Sals mates would call him a cork sniffer and they're not far wrong

But there are those out there who have such a discerning palette that they will indeed enjoy a hundred pound bottle of wine

 

Be a bit like buying a winners medal off eBay ,priceless to the one who won it though

[Dave F]

I recently had one built and considered all the statements above. True they do not hold their value well on the used market but I can personally attest the same is true for custom built guitars from the big boys. Ever had a custom Martin built and try to sell it ? You're lucky if you can get the going price for a similar standard model. A Gibson custom will most likely sell closer to a standard model also. But to each its own.

[Vinlander]

Limited size of the boutique market (read demand) and return on investment might explain this.

[OldCowboy]

Never even considered owning one, so it's hard for me to say anything especially cogent.

[slimt]

A boutique guitar is special. Pricey for a well known as well.

 

Every guitar takes a hit on value. But i think its the maker that has high regard in guitar making that see there guitars stay at high value. Thetes so much out there its hard to choose.

[62burst]

Good thread, Juan Carlos; not that we don't appreciate your "Folks, check it out" video's ; ).

 

The boutique guitar builders could easily custom build a 12-fret rosewood slot head for me, but I'd rather buy one from Gibson. Fat chance, I know. Finding "the one", or "the ones" that fit one's needs is a journey of trying on, and living with many to see what works for us, or doesn't. There's no return policy on a custom if it's not the sound you were looking for (yet?). Passing along those that don't quite fit is so much easier with the brand recognition of Gibson, etc.

[QuestionMark]

There is another factor in Gibson, Martins, etc. appealing to a larger buyer audience. That being a lot of great and cool guitar players play them. This celebrity great guitar player factor definitely influences the Gibson, Martin, etc value and resale value in the marketplace. Tommy Emmanuel and James Taylor play semi-boutique guitars so the public knows of them and thus, those semi-boutique manufacturers' guitars have a high resale value. Tons of great musicians play Gibson, Martins, so those have a good resale value. Some unknown or barely known manufacturers' guitar have no mass celebrity guitarist tie in. A low resale value follows suit. Signature models are a different thing...more a thing of manufacturers tying in the new guitar market to capitalize on the celebrity using the model. Whether one thinks all this is fair or rational, is a different topic, of course.

 

QM aka Jazzman Jeff

[kelly campbell]

I have to say that I would not mind owning a Santa Cruz, they are nice guitars. I also would agree that all guitars do take a hit on the resale market.

[Lars68]

When it comes to guitars in the Martin tradition, I think the boutique "golden era" reproduction guitars, took a big hit when Martin introduced the D-18 Authentic back in 2005. Since then, several other Authentic models have been released, competing with the boutique builders take on the Martin guitars.

 

I can also see that a lot of people, and I'm one of them, feel it is plain wrong to have, for example, a J-45 style guitar with something besides Gibson on the headstock. However, my reasoning is kind of from the aspect of one who "collects" iconic models, and not from one who necessarily plays them very well.

 

Lars

[slimt]

Gibson nor martin were not the first to build guitars. Take for granted they did make several designs. I think boutique makers just refined the tone and astetics

 

Ill take a chance at best for something independtly built. To get away from mass profit and corparate builders. Taylor gibson and so on have just got more stupider in how each can cash in on base model guitars. I am not a fan of mass builds

[Jayyj]

Over the last decade I've gradually moved from Gibson and Martin across to mainly playing a couple of Fylde guitars, which are made in small quantities in the UK. I used to be a dealer for them and I must have played over a hundred in the years I was selling them - the consistency from one to the next was in another league to that of the large US brands and that factor made it much easier to order one to be made for me. We talked about what models of his I liked and what wood combinations would be options, and I took him a 1930s L00 that he copied the neck profile from. It came out pretty much perfect and certainly not a guitar I would ever want to part with. I have two,the other being an older one that I don't worry about taking out and about so much, although my main gig guitar is still a Gibson.

 

Resale on boutique guitars depends on supply and demand - if a maker has a lengthy waiting list as with Fylde then resale can be extremely strong, where as if they're pushing to increase their presence in the market and sending a lot out to dealers they're likely to fare less well on the second hand market. Boutique guitars are a niche market and they're generally something that sell far better with a dealer who carries a range of stock to compare and contrast and has an established customer base than they do on the general market.

 

I also think boutique brands suffer more than mainstream brands when the economy is struggling - there's a definite pull back towards established brands when money is tight and people are worrying about what resale potential their purchase might have.

[BluesKing777]

 

BK's recent purchase was for a 60th birthday. For example. The feeling of having a boutique guitar would be special. By not appearing mass produced you'd get the feeling that you were buying a guitar that was made for someone else

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't think of my Cargill as a 'boutique' guitar. The man is a magician and has worked on just about every guitar I owned one way or another over many years. I played one of his customs years ago when he first started making them, but it was a maple b/s type of sound and not me...but then a few months ago I played a couple that were waiting for pickup by new owners. When I went back next time, he had just finished one like the one I bought and it was a stunner, looks and playability, and I said I would take it...sorry, just sold! So he had another similar body completed, and I got to pick the neck specs....and it is amazing.

 

But even if the guitar is a total dud, I wouldn't and couldn't sell it because he is a friend. Luckily the guitar is a beauty!

 

And so far, it has been a pretty amazing experience!

 

(I don't think I have tried a boutique guitar, and wouldn't buy one here, for resale reasons)

 

 

BluesKing777.

[CAMELEYE]

Boutique guitars do nothing for me. Why? Imprinting. Thanks to all those Kingston Trio album covers I stared at for hours in high school, I truly feel Martins are IT for me. Shape, design, tone, whatever. In my mind Martins are how guitars are supposed to look.

With Gibson, I hold the J-45 and the J-200 in a similar esteem. All the other makers, boutique, small shop just don't grab my eye.

[bayoubengal1954]

I own one guitar that would be considered "boutique", the Santa Cruz Guitar Company's take on the Roy Smeck. I bought it used (it's a 2006) at what I considered a good price, so it not holding it's value was a good thing for me. :). I bought it because I liked the tone better than the Gibson Roy Smeck Reissues I had heard, but of course tone is a personal thing. Now SCGC has been around for over 40 years and I've never had any friends who are SCGC owners have any issues with standing by the warranty.

 

If I ever sold it I would expect to take a bit of hit because the nature of the market, but I hope to never do that.

[tpbiii]

Here is an analysis of the used guitar market I did in 2010 -- I have not been motivate to update it more recently.

 

It used the 2010 VG Price guitar as the "current prices" of the instruments. For the original prices, it uses the original retail price CORRECTED BY INFLATION! -- the US government has an official inflation rate for every year. I was interested in the old/modern market. When a more modern guitar has a value of .6, it means the price guide says it will sell (if in exc condition) at 6/10 of its original value corrected by inflation. Since wholesale on modern guitars is 60% of MSRP, this means new guitars more or less keep up with inflation.

 

This has been going on since about 1970 -- the values for guitars older than that have all increased in value. The ones from the golden era, dramatically.

 

Markets are not rational based on simply quality and materials. Will this change? Can't say, but there is no real sign of it yet.

 

 

Best,

 

-Tom

[slimt]

Here is an analysis of the used guitar market I did in 2010 -- I have not been motivate to update it more recently.

 

It used the 2010 VG Price guitar as the "current prices" of the instruments. For the original prices, it uses the original retail price CORRECTED BY INFLATION! -- the US government has an official inflation rate for every year. I was interested in the old/modern market. When a more modern guitar has a value of .6, it means the price guide says it will sell (if in exc condition) at 6/10 of its original value corrected by inflation. Since wholesale on modern guitars is 60% of MSRP, this means new guitars more or less keep up with inflation.

 

This has been going on since about 1970 -- the values for guitars older than that have all increased in value. The ones from the golden era, dramatically.

 

Markets are not rational based on simply quality and materials. Will this change? Can't say, but there is no real sign of it yet.

 

 

Best,

 

-Tom

 

Good scale Tom .. Ive seen a decrease even with mine but not by much..

[mountainpicker]

When I resumed guitar playing at 49 after giving it up at 29 I got a cheap, $250 Takamine because I didn't know if it would be just a passing fancy. After about nine months of playing two or three hours a day I knew I was hooked so I went shopping for a better guitar. At that time the nearest shop to me was a 4 1/2 hour drive away and I figured that I really didn't know THAT much about what to look for in a good instrument to warrant making the drive and trying to find "the one" driving all over Denver. So, I did a lot of homework online and came to the conclusion that I was safer relying on a boutique brand that had a likelihood of fewer duds than going with a more mass produced company. I found a Santa Cruz D/PW (their take on a D-28) at a shop in Missouri being offered at a really good price so I got it.

Some of the guys I play with have been playing for over thirty years and they all agreed that that D/PW was a great guitar; great tone and great play-ability. Then I got GAS and got my J-50. It's not near the guitar the D/PW was but I learned that I really preferred the sound of mahogany over rosewood and that I liked the short scale to the longer scale. So I sold the Santa Cruz (can't remember if I took a monetary loss)and I've never regretted it.

For me the boutique guys offer a better shot at getting a more consistent product (I've never played a Collings that I would consider a dud) which is important in some cases but you pay for that. Also, I don't buy a guitar with a mind towards selling it someday so my harem remains pretty stable and I just get to know what I've got better and better and live with all the good points and not so good points.

Funny that Jyyj brings up Fylde guitars. I was just thinking of them two days ago and how you hardly ever see a used one for sale or even hear much about Roger's creations. I sure would like to play one someday.

[usernameinvalid]

Custom built any thing (cars, bikes, furniture) and Guitars are usually built for someones taste which is usually

not every ones taste. So you need to find those few people who have the same taste. The ones who can afford it

have custom made for themselves, the ones who can't afford custom but want it is not a huge market and looking

for a deal. Also not many people know what they want so they won't pay big buck for something they may or may not

like.

[bobouz]

My guitar juices got flowing in the '70s with Guild, Gibson, & Martin. Since then, I've always preferred having a rather large number of reasonably priced instruments from this primary group, both for quick salability if something new comes along that's too good to resist, and for the stimulation that comes with hearing things differently from instrument to instrument.

 

This formula has made it easy to work trades, and many nice guitars have passed through my hands over the years - each bringing a new experience & greater knowledge. Having a significant number of moderately priced instruments creates options. Whereas it seems that in most cases, one large investment only leaves a narrow path, and you'll quite possibly take a larger hit if you want to let it go quickly.

[OldCowboy]

Actually, I was offered a straight-out trade of a custom made guitar for my '61 (rebraced to LG-2) LG-1. 😐😒☺😁😄😅👎

[Bozz]

Thanks JC, this is an interesting topic. I'm not really that familiar with the used guitar market. But, I'd be surprised if my Gibsons are holding their value much differently than my Collings. I know for sure, they all dropped significantly in value the day I walked them out of the store. But I have no plans to sell any of them, so it doesn't really matter to me.

 

I think the choice between boutique vs. Gibson, Martin, Taylor in many cases it boils down to a player's financial resources. When people have plenty of money they often choose to live in a bigger house in a better neighborhood, drive newer and higher end cars, eat in better restaurants, collect better art, wear nicer clothes, etc. Why would their guitars be any different? Would they choose to play a $1,600 guitar pulled off an assembly line when they can easily drop $10K on a boutique custom hand build?

 

Don't get me wrong, I have multiple Gibsons that I love more than anything. They provide me this visceral something that I feel in my gut and my heart. I love playing them and I love how they look and feel. I also have a 12 fret, slot head, Collings 00 that is perfect in every way. It doesn't give me the same buzz I get from my Gibsons, but it has a wow factor every time I take it out of its case. I appreciate its artistic beauty and articulate voice. I feel good knowing that every piece of it was hand selected, that its top was hand sanded to a thickness individualized for the tonal quality of that particular piece of Red Spruce, and that it was built to be as tonally and aesthetically flawless as possible.

 

With Gibsons, everyone will tell you to play them first, as some are outstanding and some are average. You don't really hear that with boutique builds.

 

Bo

[BluesKing777]

The sub category would be for guitars made to the famous pre war specs at a fair price for people that like wider nut, large V neck like old OMs and L-00s. While Gibson and Martin do make these reissues, the prices are up there with the 'boutiques'. ie: Legends and Authentics.

 

 

BluesKing777.

[JuanCarlosVejar]

Thanks JC, this is an interesting topic. I'm not really that familiar with the used guitar market. But, I'd be surprised if my Gibsons are holding their value much differently than my Collings. I know for sure, they all dropped significantly in value the day I walked them out of the store. But I have no plans to sell any of them, so it doesn't really matter to me.

 

I think the choice between boutique vs. Gibson, Martin, Taylor in many cases it boils down to a player's financial resources. When people have plenty of money they often choose to live in a bigger house in a better neighborhood, drive newer and higher end cars, eat in better restaurants, collect better art, wear nicer clothes, etc. Why would their guitars be any different? Would they choose to play a $1,600 guitar pulled off an assembly line when they can easily drop $10K on a boutique custom hand build?

 

Don't get me wrong, I have multiple Gibsons that I love more than anything. They provide me this visceral something that I feel in my gut and my heart. I love playing them and I love how they look and feel. I also have a 12 fret, slot head, Collings 00 that is perfect in every way. It doesn't give me the same buzz I get from my Gibsons, but it has a wow factor every time I take it out of its case. I appreciate its artistic beauty and articulate voice. I feel good knowing that every piece of it was hand selected, that its top was hand sanded to a thickness individualized for the tonal quality of that particular piece of Red Spruce, and that it was built to be as tonally and aesthetically flawless as possible.

 

With Gibsons, everyone will tell you to play them first, as some are outstanding and some are average. You don't really hear that with boutique builds.

 

Bo

 

Bo,

 

Ok since you have experience owning factory and boutique here is a question:

 

In your opinion why would someone buy a boutique guitar, play it for a while and then trade it in? I am left handed and at lefty online guitar shops I often see people buy boutique guitars and within a few months they are up for sale again ,these are suppossed to be tonally outstanding instrument that you would never want to part with (that's the theory behind the boutique guitars at least) so I am kind of baffled when I see so much used santa cruz,collings,etc ... And the only thing that comes to mind is ..."They returned or traded it in because they did not love the sound"

 

 

What is your take on this?

 

 

 

JC