Allenjason95 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 Why is it so many guitarists think “vintage” has anything to do with the value of a guitar? There are plenty of cheap vintage guitars. Look at Tiescos or Supros (although they’re shooting up in value lately). “Vintage” just refers to when something was made, or it’s age, not its value. Many vintage guitars are, of course, valuable but plenty aren’t. I see guys scoffing at anything from the 80s being called “vintage” but “vintage” in a collecting sense is a constantly sliding scale. 40 years from now a 2017 Guitar will be “vintage”. I mean in 1959 a Burst LP wasn’t “vintage” in 1959 but 30 years later they were. For a long time Bursts were rare and desirable but they weren’t vintage. That’s the way “vintage” works. They’re not “vintage” because of their value, they’re vintage because of their age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 I'd prefer nothing that's younger than me to be called vintage. What do you think of people who get bent out of shape over people who get bent out of shape over the term vintage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 The word is just a word meaning of a certain age. But when you combine it with objects of fine quality you have a functional definition. In other words, a vintage POS is still a POS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayinLA Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 Allright. Maybe I will take back everything ugly I've ever said about "vintage" and the 'collector' market affecting how much we pay for gear. Just saw a youtube video of a $40,000 flute. A ******* flute. A metal tube with some hinges. Yamaha, turns out is a big player in the high end flute business, but the expensive one was some maker I've never heard of. Still think Gibson needs to make a 335 Studio for bout $1,500. But I thank the Lord I am not a flutist ? Flute player??? fluter..flute commander??.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 Allright. Maybe I will take back everything ugly I've ever said about "vintage" and the 'collector' market affecting how much we pay for gear. Just saw a youtube video of a $40,000 flute. A ******* flute. A metal tube with some hinges. Yamaha, turns out is a big player in the high end flute business, but the expensive one was some maker I've never heard of. Still think Gibson needs to make a 335 Studio for bout $1,500. But I thank the Lord I am not a flutist ? Flute player??? fluter..flute commander??.. http://www.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/2016/Memphis/ES-335-Studio.aspx http://www.cranes.co.uk/gibson-memphis-es-335-studio-ebony?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIye7T-ZuN2AIV6L3tCh3XYwwAEAkYBCABEgICxfD_BwE https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/160107292083002--gibson-es-335-studio-ginger-burst-2016?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIzsTI5pyN2AIVbbHtCh1HZwJ3EAkYAyABEgK9NPD_BwE and even a 339 https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/160107292056002--gibson-es-339-studio-ginger-burst-2016?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxOGnppyN2AIVB54bCh1_TQCHEAkYASABEgJsi_D_BwE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allenjason95 Posted December 16, 2017 Author Share Posted December 16, 2017 The word is just a word meaning of a certain age. But when you combine it with objects of fine quality you have a functional definition. In other words, a vintage POS is still a POS. “Vintage” has nothing to do with the quality, it’s the age. Of course there are “vintage” POS guitars, that’s kind of my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allenjason95 Posted December 16, 2017 Author Share Posted December 16, 2017 I'd prefer nothing that's younger than me to be called vintage. What do you think of people who get bent out of shape over people who get bent out of shape over the term vintage? Well you’d have to show me someone who is bent out of shape about them being bent out f shape. Or is commenting on something or asking questions about it getting bent out shape to you? Because then you’d be bent out of shape over me getting bent out of shape over them getting out of shape. Lord....where will it end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayinLA Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 That's cool. I been all over the place and all of em I see are the Signatures and Standards. They're all $3000+. Everyone tells me to look at a Studio. I never bought a guitar through the mail. I'm gonna try to track one down. Thanks man. Thats the first time I seen one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 Far be it from me to try to stop you getting bent Jason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 It's a tricky word. These days it's just become interchangeable with the words, used or second hand. It used to imply some kind of merit. Not only old, but good. People trying to sell second hand tat on eBay have actually changed the generally accepted meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allenjason95 Posted December 16, 2017 Author Share Posted December 16, 2017 It's a tricky word. These days it's just become interchangeable with the words, used or second hand. It used to imply some kind of merit. Not only old, but good. People trying to sell second hand tat on eBay have actually changed the generally accepted meaning. it never implied quality except to people trying to sell guitars. They put “vintage” before a guitar they had for sale and people who didn’t know what “vintage” meant took it to mean “quality”. Vintage has never meant “quality”. People might have used it that way to sell a guitar, but that’s never what it meant. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allenjason95 Posted December 16, 2017 Author Share Posted December 16, 2017 Far be it from me to try to stop you getting bent Jason. Why you so bent about me getting bent about others getting bent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 "Vintage" has nothing to do with the quality, it's the age. Of course there are "vintage" POS guitars, that's kind of my point. OK. so what exactly are you raging against? People who make generalized statements about vintage equaling value, no matter what the item? Who freekin' thinks that. Vintage fine instruments aren't just a concept. You might be listening to idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 Oh, not at all. I've never been a bender in the slightest, but I (literally) wouldn't stand in your way. I would be most interested in your definition of 'quality' though...that is a trickier one than vintage I find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allenjason95 Posted December 16, 2017 Author Share Posted December 16, 2017 OK. so what exactly are you raging against? People who make generalized statements about vintage equaling value, no matter what the item? Who freekin' thinks that. Vintage fine instruments aren't just a concept. You might be listening to idiots. Since we’re on the subject of not knowing what words mean......you need to look up what “rage” means in a dictionary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 Here we go again Someone wake me up when this is over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allenjason95 Posted December 16, 2017 Author Share Posted December 16, 2017 Oh, not at all. I've never been a bender in the slightest, but I (literally) wouldn't stand in your way. I would be most interested in your definition of 'quality' though...that is a trickier one than vintage I find. Quality in guitar terms means something that’s built well and made out of good materials and parts. I see vintage Harmony, Kaye, Baron, Stella, etc, acoustics for sale all the time. I’ve never owned one but I’ve read most have neck problems with high action that needs to be fixed if you want to actually play them. That’s why you can get a 50-60 year old Stella for $100-200 bucks anywhere. Those are vintage, but not quality, at all. On the other hand most old Gibsons, Fenders or Martins, assuming they weren’t abused and minor aging issues aside, are just as playable today as they were when they were built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allenjason95 Posted December 16, 2017 Author Share Posted December 16, 2017 Here we go again Someone wake me up when this is over Why do you need to be woken up? Just move on to another thread. You don’t want to read this. Don’t. Crazy concept, I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 Here we go again Someone wake me up when this is over Yep. Sorry I engaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allenjason95 Posted December 16, 2017 Author Share Posted December 16, 2017 Yep. Sorry I engaged. Uh huh. I started a thread. You replied. I replied back. You then said I was “raging”. Nothing I’ve said here is “raging”, at all. If you have a problem with me disagreeing with what you said tell me why. That’s how debates work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NighthawkChris Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 Maybe some people think that vintage is somehow implying rarity, and this is where someone might try to see any value that something may have due to something being possibly rare and wanted by others. The truth of the matter is that it all depends on simple supply-demand rules like everything in business primarily. I mean, I'm recalling personal experience here, but when I look for a certain type of guitar, you see the going rate at any given time and it has some value associated with it. I have an idea what is available and what price range is set. Someone might intuitively think that as something ages, it becomes more rare as the production has stopped and what is here today is all that's left of some particular thing from now to forever. Vintage is just a description, have at it what you will. If people like to buy vintage things, then the seller is doing a good job marketing something for these "vintage" people. Mind you I am no expert - who is here... just a bunch of people who play guitar and have nothing better to do than post stuff on Gibson's forum, haha! I agree that vintage != value 100% of the time. Now something that has value like the original vintage Gibson burst, I mean who doesn't want that thing, and because it is one of a kind and becoming older by the day, it becomes more important to the collector I suppose. Once that thing goes in a fire, never again will it be around like it was... When vintage is used in this manner to describe something nearly historic, it seems to place significant value, whereas on eBay today, yeah, let's let that redefine what things really are... I guess when you put this all together, something that is rare and vintage, it should increase the value of something? I don't know. I mean, look at the vintage historical DaVinci paintings... They are insanely expensive - I cannot even comprehend it. I'll bet back in the day, DaVinci's works probably weren't valued as high as today, huh? Have to go back hundreds of years to find out for sure... Gibson has history I guess, and many a professional player has chosen to sport a Gibson... This I imagine helps everyone associate more value with this guitar brand, and people will pay for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krock Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 I think of vintage instruments like antique's of any other type. However due to the relatively short length of time guitars have been around, the length of time I use to distinguish it as vintage is much different to an antique (100+ years). I agree with the other commenters that there is no correlation between the term vintage and build quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 .......But I thank the Lord I am not a flutist ? Flute player??? fluter..flute commander??.. Flautist. I think. :-k The word 'Vintage' can have slightly different meanings.....as I understand it. A vintage car is one built between 1919-1930. Very specific. Vintage wine - typical reference might be "this bottle of chablis/merlot/whatever - is 1995 vintage". As Farns notes, here it simply qualifies the year and therefore age, of the wine. In both of the above definitions, the item in question can still be driven/repaired/consumed/used in the present time. Important. And "it's been a vintage year" or "Eric put on a show that was vintage Clapton" - just means 'very good indeed'. Forum members please correct me if I am wrong. And yes, the word is over-used and thus possibly devalued, these days... Er - with big respect, greatest respect, to everybody here, it's a bit off minusing Allen's original post. IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 Flautist. I think. :-k The word 'Vintage' can have slightly different meanings.....as I understand it. A vintage car is one built between 1919-1930. Very specific. Vintage wine - typical reference might be "this bottle of chablis/merlot/whatever - is 1995 vintage". As Farns notes, here it simply qualifies the year and therefore age, of the wine. In both of the above definitions, the item in question can still be driven/repaired/consumed/used in the present time. Important. And "it's been a vintage year" or "Eric put on a show that was vintage Clapton" - just means 'very good indeed'. Forum members please correct me if I am wrong. And yes, the word is over-used and thus possibly devalued, these days... Er - with big respect, greatest respect, to everybody here, it's a bit off minusing Allen's original post. IMO. Slightly wrong. The age specifics placed on vintage cars has become widely accepted in the UK but it is set by the VSCC (vintage sports car club) who are no authority over anyone. Outside VSCC circles this definition can be freely ignored, and often is. Oh, and Ally's op was clearly concieved for no reason but to start an argument so I minused it. That's my prerogative. It's also positioned as factual but it's innacurate, another good reason imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 I just think the term is over used, and over emphasized. There's always a market for the gullible. what's the bar? isn't it something like 25 years,, so the thought was any guitar was over 25 years old was considered "vintage"... so last year, that 92 LP Standard was just a 96 LP standard? now it's "VINTAGE" and suddenly worth 2x? it's the same guitar isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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