drathbun Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 It looks like it is time to take down all my YouTube music covers. I've been putting up videos of me playing my favourite tunes on YouTube for around 10 years. I'm retired on a fixed income and have a few hobbies. Now that I'm being attacked every day with threats of legal action I have no choice. I can't afford to be sued or afford a lawyer to protect something that is just a bit of fun. I'll leave my how-to videos unless any of them have me playing Hotel California longer than 30 seconds. My fountain pen videos will remain as well until I get sued by Montblanc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 I've had no trouble Maybe mine are too sh1t to worry about 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 It's a crying shame all this is going on. Its like sort of corporate political correctness. Nobody gains and lots of us lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scriv58 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Seems like a good reason to fire up the Montblanc and post some original tunes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 I hope you consider posting the audio to Soundcloud or similar site. I enjoy your stuff! Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drathbun Posted May 1, 2019 Author Share Posted May 1, 2019 I hope you consider posting the audio to Soundcloud or similar site. I enjoy your stuff! Lars Thanks Lars. I have all my tunes on Soundclick page (it is in my signature). It is just YouTube that is the issue. Google (the worldwide tax evader) owns YouTube and YouTube bows to its corporate sponsors who make these bogus copyright claim attacks knowing the joe everyman doesn't have the deep pockets to fight. Google... a really responsible corporate world citizen: From Wikipedia - "Google Vice-President Matt Brittin testified to the Public Accounts Committee of the UK House of Commons that his UK sales team made no sales and hence owed no sales taxes to the UK. In January 2016, Google reached a settlement with the UK to pay £130m in back taxes plus higher taxes in future. In 2017, Google channeled $22.7 billion from the Netherlands to Bermuda to reduce its tax bill." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhanners623 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 That sucks. I only have a few covers up, and I guess they are obscure enough that the Copyright Cops don't care. Or haven't noticed. Yet. As a fellow fountain pen fan, I should check out your videos. My current fave is my Parker Sonnet Cisele. I found a great little (and I mean "little," as in the size of a closet) fountain pen shop in the old suq area of Kuwait. They have some great vintage pens. The owner is Indian (I think) and said Arabs never really know how to use a fountain pen properly because they're always in a hurry when they write. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyd Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 I think the new EU copyright law is what's driving this, and Google/Youtube actually don't like it. Have not read up on this in detail, but my understanding is that the new law makes the website (Youtube) directly responsible for any copyright infringement where, in the past, Youtube sucessfully claimed they weren't responsible for user content that was posted on their site as long as they took it down when notified. The problem is, when somebody goes to watch your video they are also viewing ads that provide income for Youtube. That's why Youtube exists - to sell advertising - not to provide a community service. The copyright holders are not happy about this, since Youtube is making money off their material (though advertising), yet the artists aren't getting anything. Right or wrong... I dunno. But I think that's what's happening. It isn't about you, it's about a huge platform that is monetizing your video. You could get your own personal website and host your own videos. I doubt that the copyright holders would care very much about that, as long as you aren't making any money or hosting any advertising. Or you could use Vimeo and make your videos private. You can still post links to them here and elsewhere, and (based on my experience and others) you probably won't have any problems. But if you make them public, then they are also going to come after you. You really need a paid Vimeo account to take full advantage of private videos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle fester Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 That's too bad Doug, hope you figure out a workaround - it is a fun hobby, and 10 yrs invested is not something to easily flush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drathbun Posted May 1, 2019 Author Share Posted May 1, 2019 I think the new EU copyright law is what's driving this, and Google/Youtube actually don't like it. Have not read up on this in detail, but my understanding is that the new law makes the website (Youtube) directly responsible for any copyright infringement where, in the past, Youtube sucessfully claimed they weren't responsible for user content that was posted on their site as long as they took it down when notified. The problem is, when somebody goes to watch your video they are also viewing ads that provide income for Youtube. That's why Youtube exists - to sell advertising - not to provide a community service. The copyright holders are not happy about this, since Youtube is making money off their material (though advertising), yet the artists aren't getting anything. Right or wrong... I dunno. But I think that's what's happening. It isn't about you, it's about a huge platform that is monetizing your video. You could get your own personal website and host your own videos. I doubt that the copyright holders would care very much about that, as long as you aren't making any money or hosting any advertising. Or you could use Vimeo and make your videos private. You can still post links to them here and elsewhere, and (based on my experience and others) you probably won't have any problems. But if you make them public, then they are also going to come after you. You really need a paid Vimeo account to take full advantage of private videos. Thanks for the constructive information Boyd. I understand the YouTube (Google) position and the EU ruling. However, YouTube should have some provision for making the accuser PROVE they are the copyright holders of the particular song. YouTube believes any group that makes a copyright claim and takes action pre-emptively. The example is my video being taken down unilaterally without warning based on a "claim" by a "music group" that is well known for being a kamikaze. There is no forum to make a claim that my playing my guitar and singing a song in my basement and sharing that is a violation of Supertramp's rights. Supertramp will get zero income from my video or any ads that YouTube places on my non-monetized YouTube channel. Perhaps YouTube should refrain from placing ads on non-monetized channels.. allowing the fair and academic use of amateur content. Regardless, I will not be a content contributor to YouTube because they don't give a **** about content creators. They proved that when they forced me to change my channel into French because I am a Canadian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drathbun Posted May 1, 2019 Author Share Posted May 1, 2019 That sucks. I only have a few covers up, and I guess they are obscure enough that the Copyright Cops don't care. Or haven't noticed. Yet. As a fellow fountain pen fan, I should check out your videos. My current fave is my Parker Sonnet Cisele. I found a great little (and I mean "little," as in the size of a closet) fountain pen shop in the old suq area of Kuwait. They have some great vintage pens. The owner is Indian (I think) and said Arabs never really know how to use a fountain pen properly because they're always in a hurry when they write. Hey dhanners. The Parker Sonnet is an awesome pen. I have a lookalike in the Baoer 388 but they are a little thin for me. My favourite pen at the moment is a Kaigelu 316 which is very similar to a Parker Centennial Duofold (but not a piston filler). I also have a lovely Visconti Van Gogh Starry Night. But I think I'm off the topic of guitars and might be a cease and desist order from Gibson! (My last post her got booted to the black hole of the lounge ) Edited to add a gratuitous photo of a Gibson guitar: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 As mentioned earlier in the thread, see this as a sign on firmament to begin writing your own things. Let's just say that you spent 10 years kind of learning to master covers. Now it's time to move further. Well, the songs may not appear to be as terrific as the classics you obviously admire so much, but they will shine in an different way. And be worth something else, , , maybe more precious. I guarantee the satisfaction will come, perhaps even in a larger scale. Just remember that good songs aren't necessarily difficult or over-clever songs. The universe arranged it so that good songs don't have a formula or a certain technical niveau. They travel on alternative frequencies. This is your call to literally tune in. . Enjoy, , and keep posting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Use this experience for inspiration. Throw in pieces similar to your favorite numbers like Fogerty did in his comeback album after he gave up his rights to his earlier hits. Songs like Zans Kant Danz. Here’s your first song title ‘Tube Won’t Do’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Give it some serious thought before posting original material! Go through the full Copyright process yourself. The same 'Bots' (search machine engines) that found your 'copyright infringement' could also find your non copyrighted original material, copyright it for their purposes.... They may not find your version of "While my sitar gently creeps" or, love it, 'Hey dude'... BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Give it some serious thought before posting original material! Go through the full Copyright process yourself. The same 'Bots' (search machine engines) that found your 'copyright infringement' could also find your non copyrighted original material, copyright it for their purposes.... I don't think there are any bots looking to steal original music. I could be wrong. But I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestionMark Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Bots trying to steal songs sounds like a conspiracy theory with no merit to me. As once an original song is put on YouTube, there is a digital imprint dated on YouTube as to who was credited as the songwriter (if the video or its narrative references the songwriter), predating anyone who might later formally copyright it. Plus, the indie songwriter who wrote and loaded the video to YouTube would have the originally digitally imprinted/dated video file. So someone attempting to steal it would have no case trying to prove they earlier wrote it if it went on to make a ton of money and a lawsuit over who wrote it had to occur. Even if it was taken down on YouTube, the original songwriter would have the originally digitally dated video file uploaded to YouTube, plus, every system always has a backup system, so an attorney could subpoena a copy of YouTube’s earlier version of their system before it was taken down. QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 ...The same 'Bots' (search machine engines) that found your 'copyright infringement' could also find your non copyrighted original material, copyright it for their purposes.... There are no bots. It takes thirty seconds to find your own songs being played on the internet, and it takes another 12 seconds to find out if the host is paying their fair share to ASCAP/BMI or other publisher/owner. This stuff only happens because the people that handle the affairs of the owner of the copyrighted work take the time, money, and effort required to protect their ownership. It isn't insidious, devious, evil, or sinister, it is old fashioned legal protection of legally established legal rights. It is unfortunate that it catches the small fish along the way, but again, the vitriol should be aimed squarely at the big internet hosts that just don't want to work to make a situation good for everybody. It's an All or Nothing world, and the days of All are almost over. If you should choose to write and record and hang your own songs up on the internet, you too will feel a sense of protection of that which is yours, and you too could end up having covers of your own material taken down, in which case, you too would be The Man keeping everyone else down. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyd Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 There may not be bots, but there are definitely copyright trolls who hope to profit by identifying infringement. Don't know how this works with music, but I have some experience with the printed word. I'm a moderator at a regional website - in rct's backyard actually ;) - where people come to discuss local issues and history. Somebody scanned part of the front page of a 30 year old local newspaper to share a story of interest. This paper has been out of business for more than 10 years, but somebody else now owns their content and a troll threatened the site with legal action. The site owner dodged it, but had to hire a lawyer and pay his fee. So we now have to be very vigilant when anyone posts images or articles from material that is copyrighted by someone else. Some crazy stuff is happening these days. A couple months ago, I read a story in the New York TImes about how owners of art galleries in New York were being systematically sued for huge amounts for violating consitutional rights because their websites weren't fully accessible to blind people. And this was all being done by a firm that specializes in this type of trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drathbun Posted May 2, 2019 Author Share Posted May 2, 2019 I received another notice from YouTube today about a video that has been removed. I wonder how long they are going to beach at me about this. If I remove my entire channel they'll probably send me an email saying "We miss you! Was it something we said?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestionMark Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 I know in the US, YouTube has negotiated payment contracts with the publishing giants in the industry as well as with ASCAP and BMI to enable people to post music on YouTube managed through the publishing giants. However, as they are contracts with the publishers, they have expiration dates and periodically they have to be renegotiated. I recall it being in the news a few years back that one of the bargaining tools each side was using was threatening removing all music held by a publisher if certain contract terms were not agreed upon. Ultimately, YouTube and each of the publishers or entities collecting fees, agreed to new terms and everything went on as usual in YouTube. I assume that also goes on every few years as well as in countries outside of the US. A big chunk of money goes to publishers these days from YouTube if their songs are on it and likewise, if people can’t post certain songs, YouTube loses YouTube viewers and posters and thus loses ad revenue. It’s possible you may be caught up in YouTube’s contract negotiations with publishers, which likely will be resolved soon to everyone’s satisfaction and profits, except your own. The only experience I had with YouTube threats regarding cover songs I have on it, was a couple of time two publishers at different times contacted me and said if I don’t give them the right to place ads on their videos that they would profit from, they would ask me to remove the ad-free videos. So I authorized their right to monetize the two videos on their behalf and all turned out fine. Since it doesn’t sound like that is occurring by you, it could be you’re caught in YT’s contract negotiations with publishers. Or, a falling out that they had with a publisher. But, I can’t say for sure. Keep us posted. QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 You don't have to stop Youtubing if you are determined, you just need to pay the fee. I mean, the fee for using an Eagles song could be fairly extreme, especially their really famous ones, but there are agencies that sell way cheap ones, I am told. For example, a fee to use a BK777 song would be quite err..reasonable. <_< Her are some links to articles, some a bit old and out of date probably, but the jist is the same...pay a fee to use a copyrighted song. https://diymusician.cdbaby.com/youtube/posting-cover-songs-on-youtube-music-licensing-law-explained/ https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/posting-cover-songs-on-youtube-what-you-need-to-know BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestionMark Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 BK777-the articles you posted are both good articles. They say iin legal terms pretty much what I explained, only with a lot more detailed info and credibility. Thanks for posting them. I learned some stuff, too, from them. QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 Yes, I thought they looked good too... I have no idea if they are correct. Copyright applies to everything, live gigs, recording, Youtube, Vimeo. etc etc., so best to get on it. The only thing hard to Google is the ancient question - 'how much'? I have seen claims of #1, $10, $50, $1000..... In the old days, you were advised to put a witnessed copy of a cassette of your song plus a copy of the lyrics/chord sheet in a parcel and mail it to yourself registered mail. Then don't open it! Now, who knows? Did I mention I don't like Youtube stuffing up my account....I worked for a company that used Outlook for email forever and the genii decided to change to Google Mail and my old email address for Youtube clashed with the new Google Mail address, so they shut me down when I ignored them. And can you believe my company got bought out and guess what we use for email now? Outlook! Yep, back to Outlook. But Youtube looks for my old work address........we are lost. Joined Vimeo, but Doug's copyright biz has put a damper on an already soggy broadband and videos arrangement! BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drathbun Posted May 3, 2019 Author Share Posted May 3, 2019 I know in the US, YouTube has negotiated payment contracts with the publishing giants in the industry as well as with ASCAP and BMI to enable people to post music on YouTube managed through the publishing giants. However, as they are contracts with the publishers, they have expiration dates and periodically they have to be renegotiated. I recall it being in the news a few years back that one of the bargaining tools each side was using was threatening removing all music held by a publisher if certain contract terms were not agreed upon. Ultimately, YouTube and each of the publishers or entities collecting fees, agreed to new terms and everything went on as usual in YouTube. I assume that also goes on every few years as well as in countries outside of the US. A big chunk of money goes to publishers these days from YouTube if their songs are on it and likewise, if people can’t post certain songs, YouTube loses YouTube viewers and posters and thus loses ad revenue. It’s possible you may be caught up in YouTube’s contract negotiations with publishers, which likely will be resolved soon to everyone’s satisfaction and profits, except your own. The only experience I had with YouTube threats regarding cover songs I have on it, was a couple of time two publishers at different times contacted me and said if I don’t give them the right to place ads on their videos that they would profit from, they would ask me to remove the ad-free videos. So I authorized their right to monetize the two videos on their behalf and all turned out fine. Since it doesn’t sound like that is occurring by you, it could be you’re caught in YT’s contract negotiations with publishers. Or, a falling out that they had with a publisher. But, I can’t say for sure. Keep us posted. QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff Thanks Jeff. That's some great background information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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