Gibson vs Martin

[Sgt. Pepper]

23 minutes ago, jvi said:

I like all brands  but having one family own a business for so long is a great thing, a great story on its own.

What company is that?

[bobouz]

16 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

What company is that?

It’s the company that has a systemic problem with bindings popping off - I think you know the one!  Sorry to bring it up once again, but reading the Technical Info section today over on the UMGF forced my hand.  More poor & unhappy souls all the time having to contemplate their approach to getting it repaired (sometimes including damaged finish), or perhaps just selling the guitar at a loss.  Potentially afflicting any USA-made Martin from approx 2012 to 2018 (& perhaps beyond), it seems to be happening to a lot of very expensive instruments, which is of course all the more maddening for their owners.

Imho, anyone considering a Martin vs Gibson acoustic purchase should thoroughly read up on this issue before plunking down their hard earned dollars.

Edited December 10, 2021 by bobouz

[Sgt. Pepper]

4 hours ago, bobouz said:

It’s the company that has a systemic problem with bindings popping off - I think you know the one!  Sorry to bring it up once again, but reading the Technical Info section today over on the UMGF forced my hand.  More poor & unhappy souls all the time having to contemplate their approach to getting it repaired (sometimes including damaged finish), or perhaps just selling the guitar at a loss.  Potentially afflicting any USA-made Martin from approx 2012 to 2018 (& perhaps beyond), it seems to be happening to a lot of very expensive instruments, which is of course all the more maddening for their owners.

Imho, anyone considering a Martin vs Gibson acoustic purchase should thoroughly read up on this issue before plunking down their hard earned dollars.

Oh that one. The one that has never had any of there CEO's almost drive the company into bankruptcy. 

Any maybe just like you with Gibson, non of those things that people complain about on my Martin have never happened to me, and I have owed 14 or so all from between 2001 - 2020. I own one in that time frame and its one of my favorite of off them all. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Sgt. Pepper

[bobouz]

53 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Any maybe just like you with Gibson, non of those things that people complain about on my Martin have never happened to me, and I have owed 14 or so all from between 2001 - 2020. I own one in that time frame and its one of my favorite of off them all. 

Hope your good luck continues, but that doesn’t help any of the folks who’ve been & continue to be burned by this problem.  Yes, Gibson had a CEO with dilutions of grandeur, but given years to do so, Martin’s yawning brain trust neither formally acknowledged or fixed a systemic problem that has directly impacted scores of purchasers - and the rippling testimonials continue to this day.

Again, anyone considering the purchase of a Martin should spend some time researching threads on this subject in the Technical Info section of the UMGF.

[fortyearspickn]

I think some here continue to ignore the fact that Henry literally saved Gibson from going away.  Yes, decades later, other changes in the market overwhelmed him and his management team.  But - simply stated - we would not be here on this forum laughing at Sgt.Pepper's  Fan Boy comments disparaging our guitars, if it were not for that 'CEO that almost drove the company into bankruptcy'. 

[Sgt. Pepper]

13 minutes ago, fortyearspickn said:

I think some here continue to ignore the fact that Henry literally saved Gibson from going away.  Yes, decades later, other changes in the market overwhelmed him and his management team.  But - simply stated - we would not be here on this forum laughing at Sgt.Pepper's  Fan Boy comments disparaging our guitars, if it were not for that 'CEO that almost drove the company into bankruptcy'. 

Henry did, and then he got to big for his rich millionaire britches, and decided he wanted his hand in 100 different things instead of just making quality guitars that you guys want. 

And I have owned about 15 - 20 Gibson's throughout my life, so don't think I don't have experience with Gibson's guitars.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Sgt. Pepper

[jvi]

kudos to "henry", he did great things and the gits of his era were top notch , gits are gits, and both makers, and many   others as well, make fine instruments. As of now I own Gibson, next will be a Martin or ....

[Sgt. Pepper]

If Martin’s CEO did the same thing as King Henry and almost ran the company into the ground you guys would be shouting how incompetent CFM IV was from the top of a mountain and you know it, but you can’t. I think he has a business degree from UCLA and Gibson’s current CEO is no dummy, he is a businessman, but CFM IV grew up in a guitar making family. Gibson’s new guy sold Chinese made jeans and candy.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Sgt. Pepper

[Sgt. Pepper]

I now want to pose a question to the members here who own those lousy Martins - How many who own both or just a Martin have had their binding pop off?

One vote here  - a big nope.

[ksdaddy]

3 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

I now want to pose a question to the members here who own those lousy Martins - How many who own both or just a Martin have had their binding pop off?

One vote here  - a big nope.

The only experience I've had with Martin binding popping off is a D-28 that went through a house fire. The guitar didn't burn, and it didn't even get it hot enough to damage the finish, but when they guy found it and opened the case, all the body binding had come off. I repaired it for him. I think I had to graft in one little piece, maybe 1/4" long.

Now GRETSCH lol......

[Dave F]

I’ve had quite a few Martins and never had a binding issue. Same for Gibson, Fender, …..

[SteveFord]

I had the binding come off my Guild, I probably over humidified the thing.

No issues with my HD-28V so far.  

I haven't even had the frets do the Doves In Flight thing, ha ha.

I shouldn't laugh, that must have been such a horrible shock.

[E-minor7]

10 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

And I have owned about 15 - 20 Gibson's throughout my life, so don't think I don't have experience with Gibson's guitars.

• Yes, but they were all black Les Pauls.
   

                                         I remember you as the strict and disciplined chief moderator of The Black Les Paul Forum

[bobouz]

10 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

I now want to pose a question to the members here who own those lousy Martins - How many who own both or just a Martin have had their binding pop off?  One vote here  - a big nope.

If you’re trying to say that there’s essentially no issue, just go get the facts in the many threads on this subject on the UMGF.  People are posting on the Technical Info section of UMGF time after time to get help with a problematic defect that’s going to require repair, and often on very expensive models.  If they purchased the item used, everything will be out of pocket - including potential finish repairs.  If under warranty, they’re wondering what may or may not be covered, and what repair options might be in play - such as having all of the binding replaced on the instrument in order to avoid having a different section popping loose after the initial repair.  And if there are finish issues, will the warranty cover any of that?

These folks never thought they’d have to deal with such repairs on a new & expensive Martin, but now they’re having to dive in & muck through the process.

Veering off into a chat about CEOs, or a poll about Martins on a Gibson forum doesn’t change or minimize the reality of the issue.  Sure, we’re not talking about every solitary Martin, but it remains a documented factor to consider if contemplating a purchase - which is what initiated the revival of this thread.

Edited December 11, 2021 by bobouz

[RBSinTo]

Chief,

Since you asked, my one Martin is a 1974 D-28, which I've owned since 1979.

It has neither had bindings pop off, nor needed a neck re-set.

By way of full disclosure, I had the pickguard which had curled, replaced, and the bridgeplate was also replaced last year.

RBSinTo

 

[BluesKing777]

 

Loose binding, shrinking binding (different issue) and other brands with bits that wobble........I put it down to general bad Yankee workmanship!🤒

The Martin binding problems are around 2015......glue didn’t like the binding.

I have loose binding on one Martin and shrinking  binding on others of approx the time frame above.

In Australia, we only get warranty for a few months after purchase...after that, we are on our own....Sheesh, lets buy more stuff like that, eh? (And they cost twice as much here!)

We are told online that it is a cheap and simple fix.

I like the old Martin 17 series and the new 15 series - no binding!!!

So far, nothing has shrunk or fallen off my locally made Matons.

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by BluesKing777

[Sgt. Pepper]

So it looks like one yes and another because of a house fire, so I think unless I am an idiot, and of course you guys think I am, fire is hot and probably had an effect on the glue.

 

[DanvillRob]

53 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

So it looks like one yes and another because of a house fire, so I think unless I am an idiot, and of course you guys think I am, fire is hot and probably had an effect on the glue.

 

And Steve over-humidified his Guild to the point of loosening the binding!

So.... Fire AND Water will damage a guitar!   

Who'd a thunk?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

10 hours ago, BluesKing777 said:

In Australia, we only get warranty for a few months after purchase...after that, we are on our own....Sheesh, lets buy more stuff like that, eh? (And they cost twice as much here!)

BluesKing777.

 

 

Are Gibson's less expensive there? 

Gibson does the same thing. 

Here is Gibson's legal blurb about the warranty out of the USA:

**Customers who purchased product outside the U.S should contact their local distributor for the handling and resolution of all warranty issues as the above-described Gibson Gold Warranty is not applicable.

Here is Martin's: This Limited Warranty is valid only if the instrument is purchased from an authorized C. F. Martin & Co., Inc. dealer located in the United States (excluding U.S. Territories) or Canada.

So looks like both only care if you bought it in the States. Wonder what Maton's warrenty is for the USA?

Edited December 11, 2021 by Sgt. Pepper

[bobouz]

4 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

So it looks like one yes and another because of a house fire, so I think unless I am an idiot, and of course you guys think I am, fire is hot and probably had an effect on the glue.

For any meaningful info, the question needs to be asked specific to the years in question (2012-2018 & perhaps beyond).  And by asking for feedback about Martins on a Gibson forum, you’re pretty much guaranteed a limiting handful of responses.

Another key consideration:  THIS ISSUE IS ONGOING.  It may be many more years until the binding problems from this period have run their course.  To date, there have been numerous threads on UMGF about loose bindings for at least a couple of years, and new cases are being brought to light as we speak.

Case in point:  A portion of a new post from this morning on UMGF:

”I’m in a total quandary concerning how to repair my OM-28A (3of 4 waists have come loose).  I’ve sent messages to 4 different luthiers, and 3 replied with different fixes from completely removing and replacing the binding and refinishing the guitar, to just CA gluing the limited areas and worrying about future repairs at a future time.”

Meanwhile, Martin continues to sidestep publicly acknowledging the issue, most likely to avoid any kind of recall activity.  As a number of UMGF members have noted, Martin’s highly valued reputation for quality seems to be a thing of the past.

[BluesKing777]

4 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Are Gibson's less expensive there? 

So looks like both only care if you bought it in the States. Wonder what Maton's warrenty is for the USA?

 

Gibsons are over double the full US retail price here.

 

Maton probably stick it to you, as well! I did read their warranty blurb online, just then! I will never get that part of my life back.......legal.......

 

I am about to play my Lowdens for a while - they have wood bindings and probably the very best workmanship, but as the song goes...’Everything put together falls apart’ (Simon).

Glue is the problem!

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

[RBSinTo]

On 12/10/2021 at 9:38 AM, fortyearspickn said:

........ But - simply stated - we would not be here on this forum laughing at Sgt.Pepper's  Fan Boy comments........"

That's doubly  rich.

The pot calling the kettle black.  Referring to the Chief as a Fan Boy, when this site is the Mount Olympus of Fan Boydom, and laughing at his comments when one of the Invitees, who is considered to be the Scandinavian Shakespeare or somesuch actually claimed that the entire planet no less, was grateful that the Gibson company did not fold, and another Gibsonian informed everyone that " while anybody could own a Martin, it takes a special person to own a Gibson." Too funny.

Perhaps you should consider the nonsense that passes here for wisdom before you disparage those of us who haven't sipped the Kool-Aid.

RBSinTo

Edited December 12, 2021 by RBSinTo

[Peter Z]

I have 5 Martins, had another one before. One of them, the CEO-7, had the binding issue. Maybe the others are too new. It got repaired quickly and really cheaply. No big deal.

When I compare the Austrian prices to to US prices, Gibsons are very close and Martins are much higher here. 

I love both Martin and Gibson as I love a wide variety of food. Martin might be on the menu a little bit more often.

[fortyearspickn]

14 hours ago, RBSinTo said:

That's doubly  rich.

The pot calling the kettle black.  Referring to the Chief as a Fan Boy, when this site is the Mount Olympus of Fan Boydom, and laughing at his comments when one of the Invitees, who is considered to be the Scandanavian Shakespeare or somesuch actually claimed that the entire planet no less, was grateful that the Gibson company did not fold, and another Gibsonian informed everyone that " while anybody could own a Martin, it takes a special person to own a Gibson." Too funny.

Perhaps you should consider the nonsense that passes here for wisdom before you diparage those of us who haven't sipped the Koolade.

RBSinTo

Spelled Kool-Aid wrong.   You're welcome! 🙂

[olie]

7 minutes ago, fortyearspickn said:

Spelled Kool-Aid wrong.   You're welcome! 🙂

While we're at it; there's "Scandinavian" and "disparage" if we're deducting marks for spelling.And YOU are welcome.