How to relic an acoustic?

[meanstreak]

Hey folks I’ve got an old Epiphone Masterbilt AJ-500R that I bought for just $200 from a guy about 10 years ago now.  He had put three stickers on it that he removed but they left shadows.  Over the years it’s started to even out on color but the satin finish is rubbed off where the stickers were so it will forever look odd.  He also took a regular screw and put a hole in the side to use as a strap button.  

It’s a great sounding and playing guitar but ever since I got my J-45 about five years ago I haven’t really played this Epi much.  So since it’s already pretty rough looking I figured I may as well go all the way and give it a full relic job.  I need a project for the summer anyway!  
 

Anyone ever done this to an acoustic?  Any tips or ideas are welcome!

here’s a pic of it now -

https://ibb.co/5TPdkxS

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by meanstreak

[Sgt. Pepper]

Take it out in to the yard and throw handfuls of pennies at it.

[Boyd]

Never did that to a guitar and never would. Maybe just leave it laying around the house and let nature take its course? 

[j45nick]

30 minutes ago, meanstreak said:

Hey folks I’ve got an old Epiphone Masterbilt AJ-500R that I bought for just $200 from a guy about 10 years ago now.  He had put three stickers on it that he removed but they left shadows.  Over the years it’s started to even out on color but the satin finish is rubbed off where the stickers were so it will forever look odd.  He also took a regular screw and put a hole in the side to use as a strap button.  

It’s a great sounding and playing guitar but ever since I got my J-45 about five years ago I haven’t really played this Epi much.  So since it’s already pretty rough looking I figured I may as well go all the way and give it a full relic job.  I need a project for the summer anyway!  
 

Anyone ever done this to an acoustic?  Any tips or ideas are welcome!

here’s a pic of it now -

https://ibb.co/5TPdkxS

 

Play it in biker bars for about a decade. If it survives in one piece, it will probably be well-relic'd.

[scriv58]

https://umgf.com/checking-the-finish-let-s-go-t206339.html

[cunningham26]

I can't really think of a way you could relic that to have it look natural- the location of those circles isn't really a place where there's playwear. it's a poly finish so the stickers removed some of the coating vs uv light mellowing the color of it. 

I'm not expert and others can weigh in, but maybe wet sand the whole top with some high grit sandpaper, then work your way up to a shine from there?  The idea being to have the depth of finish more uniformly match the circle areas? 

I definitely didn't notice anything when i first saw the picture- it's a great guitar and you got a screaming deal on it, I'd say let time do it's thing and dont sweat it too much

[Sgt. Pepper]

E and Macca put stickers on their guitars.

 

[Twang Gang]

I'm not into relicing guitars as I just don't see the point.  I would agree with Cunningham's suggestion of just sanding down the top to try to even it out and make the circles not be as obvious. 

[E-minor7]

Hmmm, , , I'm basically against artificially creating something that is supposed to be evidence of an honest and real lived life. It's like a beauty-queen all sat up by faking assistants.                                                                 That said, I sometimes fine-sand back-sides-top on certain acoustics matt, , , and the tuners too. But that's the limit. 

                                                                           Nice pretty cool guitar by the way. . 

[Dave F]

I’m for the adding stickers. One of our members (Buc) put a slide decal of an old WW2 looking pinup gal that I liked. 
If I really want to age it I would pass it around to my working musician friends and tell them to play it hard but don’t abuse it. 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Dave F

[diskotekno]

I have devised a new foolproof system to relic guitars. It takes between 2 weeks and 6 years and works on both solid bodies and acoustics. The results are always unique and require little in the way of tools, but does require a few friends and a few common vices.

Step one: Give guitar to a small child and let them drag it around the house for about 2 weeks. This will simulate years of bump damage and introduce a variety of swirls and scratches. If the child is artistic, randomly place a Sharpie nearby and leave the room for about 20 minutes. You should return to find some neat patterns drawn on the guitar. (You may find the designs not to your liking, if this is the case try removing them with some goo-gone or similar, it will help damage the finish and let the sharpie bleed into the wood)

Step two: Take up smoking and buy a few cartons. You may already smoke so might have some super kings to hand already. When playing the guitar be sure to always chain smoke, this will stain things yellow and add the rich smell of tobacco to the guitar. Play the guitar at least 3 hours per day and take it out and busk on a street corner on weekends. (This step can be done over many years of playing and could allow you to skip all the other steps)

Step three: Buy some cases of beer and invite friends over. Do this weekly (daily if you can manage it) and play guitar while drinking beer. Allow drunk friends to also play the guitar and be sure to spill at least 2 beers per session in the sound hole. Have a lot of fun with this one. Take it on camping trips, play it near open fires, etc.

Step four: Arrange for a friend or relative to "steal the guitar" when you go away on holiday. Let them know you expect them to remove or damage the serial number and maybe attempt a poor refinish with a can of cheap spray paint. Much like the child in step one, a friend who is artistic will really do a nice job here. When they are done tell them to take it to a local pawn shop.

Step five: Buy the guitar back from local pawn shop for $50 bucks. (Someone might buy it before you, so you may need to skim craigslist or ebay for a bit until it pops back up again)

Step six: Visit a guitar forum and ask for tips on how to strip and refinish guitar you just scored at the pawn shop as the finish looks warn and the guitar smells like beer and cigarettes.

This system is entirely cyclical and can be repeated multiple times until desired effect is achieved.

Good luck!

[Sgt. Pepper]

Stickers are for cases, and like it has been debated a thousand times I'm sure on every forum out there, every major guitar maker fake mojo's guitars now, so their must be a market for it. I don't get it either, and don't buy into it. I relic all my own guitars by playing them. 

I remember the first time I saw one. I was at a house party about 7 or 8 years ago, and a guy I new, but now to well was playing a beat up looking Strat. After the band set I went over and asked how old the Strat was. He told me it was only a few years old and made to look old. It was tough stop, and I did, but I did I wanted to laugh in his face. 

I've said this time and time again. Send me your guitars and I'll beat them up for you free of charge. Take that Murphy. 

[meanstreak]

1 hour ago, cunningham26 said:

I can't really think of a way you could relic that to have it look natural- the location of those circles isn't really a place where there's playwear. it's a poly finish so the stickers removed some of the coating vs uv light mellowing the color of it. 

I'm not expert and others can weigh in, but maybe wet sand the whole top with some high grit sandpaper, then work your way up to a shine from there?  The idea being to have the depth of finish more uniformly match the circle areas? 

I definitely didn't notice anything when i first saw the picture- it's a great guitar and you got a screaming deal on it, I'd say let time do it's thing and dont sweat it too much

I just mean since it already looks a bit funky I’ll go all the way with it, not necessarily try to hide those sticker marks .

[cunningham26]

6 minutes ago, meanstreak said:

I just mean since it already looks a bit funky I’ll go all the way with it, not necessarily try to hide those sticker marks .

 diskotekno's advice is the way to go then- at the very least have fun with it

[dhanners623]

A few years ago, I had a friend (who is also a repairman and luthier) relic an IB'64 Texan I used to have. The dang thing just looked too new. But there was also a real reason for doing it: I wanted to thin down the poly finish to let the top move better.  In that regard, the procedure was a success; the guitar definitely sounded better afterwards. Did it sound like a vintage Texan? No. But it sounded better than it did.

Anyway, I had my friend write down the process he used to relic the guitar. Here it is:

Rough material removal was done with a combination of cabinet scrapers, 3M scrubbies and copper pot scouring pads, steel wool (#000-0000), sandpaper of varying grits (100, 220, 400 and so on) depending on the amount of finish to be removed and the type of contour desired. There were some areas where wood was exposed where a wire brush was used along with water to raise the grain a bit.

 

-- Surface dings and chips, etc. were accomplished by a number of means- flogging with a set of keys, light taps with a jeweler's hammer and screwdrivers,etc. (the round shaft of a screwdriver does very nicely for the little binding chips) and the belt buckle marks were etched in with the ball hex-head of a truss-rod wrench. I dropped a few coins from 3 feet or so for random top dings as well.

 

-- Most of the initial sanding with the rougher grits was done dry, but at the 400-grit level I switched to wet sanding up to this point the work was only being done on areas where specific wear patterns were desired based on the player's style and handling of the instrument. Form the 400 grit onward, the entire instrument was wet-sanded with 400, 800, 1000, 1200, 1500 and 2000 grits. I frequently revisited heavier grits in some areas as the final wear patterns became evident. Once the 2000 grit was very thoroughly applied to the entire suface with some touch-ups from larger grits and steel wool here and there, I began buffing with a soft rotary wheel and Tripolish compound. This was rather time-consuming but paid off. Note, it is VERY important to have good lighting from several angles at this point -- the really fine scratches will disappear at certain angles and you need to be very vigilant. After this step a thorough hand buffing with a soft flannel and a very light polishing compound was applied before a final polish/wax coat.

 

-- Bindings and plastic parts were sanded with 400 grit on down (special care was taken to remove molding lines and soften corners consistent with playing wear) and colorized with Letraset permanent art marker (primrose) and vintage Amber lacquer pencil (Stew-Mac #6091).

 

-- Tuners were bathed in distilled vinegar and salt for five days while other work was taking place.

 

Anyway, that's about it in a nutshell (big nut). The only advice I would give to anyone attempting this is go slow and evaluate your progress constantly. I cannot stress the importance of adequate light, and I wore actual magnifier glasses for a lot of the finer work.

[Remmuts]

I would just leave it as is and continue to play it. In time, it will take on a vintage look which will be far better than any faux enhancement.

I don’t care for the relic’ed finish on new guitars, nor do I care for purposely relic’ed old guitars. 

Just an opinion from an old man, oops, I mean honestly relic’ed man!
 

 

 

 

 

[dhanners623]

If you own the guitar, you can pretty much do what you want to with it. Having it relic'd because you like a certain look is perfectly ok. I like the look of a relic, but try to find a lefty relic. Good luck with that.

The music you make is what has to be "honest." Doesn't matter about the guitar the music comes out of.

[meanstreak]

4 hours ago, dhanners623 said:

A few years ago, I had a friend (who is also a repairman and luthier) relic an IB'64 Texan I used to have. The dang thing just looked too new. But there was also a real reason for doing it: I wanted to thin down the poly finish to let the top move better.  In that regard, the procedure was a success; the guitar definitely sounded better afterwards. Did it sound like a vintage Texan? No. But it sounded better than it did.

Anyway, I had my friend write down the process he used to relic the guitar. Here it is:

Rough material removal was done with a combination of cabinet scrapers, 3M scrubbies and copper pot scouring pads, steel wool (#000-0000), sandpaper of varying grits (100, 220, 400 and so on) depending on the amount of finish to be removed and the type of contour desired. There were some areas where wood was exposed where a wire brush was used along with water to raise the grain a bit.

 

-- Surface dings and chips, etc. were accomplished by a number of means- flogging with a set of keys, light taps with a jeweler's hammer and screwdrivers,etc. (the round shaft of a screwdriver does very nicely for the little binding chips) and the belt buckle marks were etched in with the ball hex-head of a truss-rod wrench. I dropped a few coins from 3 feet or so for random top dings as well.

 

-- Most of the initial sanding with the rougher grits was done dry, but at the 400-grit level I switched to wet sanding up to this point the work was only being done on areas where specific wear patterns were desired based on the player's style and handling of the instrument. Form the 400 grit onward, the entire instrument was wet-sanded with 400, 800, 1000, 1200, 1500 and 2000 grits. I frequently revisited heavier grits in some areas as the final wear patterns became evident. Once the 2000 grit was very thoroughly applied to the entire suface with some touch-ups from larger grits and steel wool here and there, I began buffing with a soft rotary wheel and Tripolish compound. This was rather time-consuming but paid off. Note, it is VERY important to have good lighting from several angles at this point -- the really fine scratches will disappear at certain angles and you need to be very vigilant. After this step a thorough hand buffing with a soft flannel and a very light polishing compound was applied before a final polish/wax coat.

 

-- Bindings and plastic parts were sanded with 400 grit on down (special care was taken to remove molding lines and soften corners consistent with playing wear) and colorized with Letraset permanent art marker (primrose) and vintage Amber lacquer pencil (Stew-Mac #6091).

 

-- Tuners were bathed in distilled vinegar and salt for five days while other work was taking place.

 

Anyway, that's about it in a nutshell (big nut). The only advice I would give to anyone attempting this is go slow and evaluate your progress constantly. I cannot stress the importance of adequate light, and I wore actual magnifier glasses for a lot of the finer work.

This is exactly the kind of info I was looking for, thanks very much!!

[meanstreak]

Oh meant to also say for everyone saying to just leave it as it is, I have four other natural finish acoustics and all are in pretty much perfect condition.  I really do baby my gear!

[E-minor7]

3 hours ago, dhanners623 said:

The music you make is what has to be "honest." Doesn't matter about the guitar the music comes out of.

Problem is that there is a chance a player who's willing to fake his mojo also will fake his music, , , isn't there. .                                                                                                                                                                                                        He will put water in the whisky and act drunk, , , , of course use auto-tuner and every anecdote he tells will carry a suspicious shadow of something unreal. . 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Instead of throw pennies at it, put the same size stickers back on, that will cover it up.

[E-minor7]

3 minutes ago, 62burst said:

whoa,   dude.

A bit overstated for you, chap. .  ?

[62burst]

18 minutes ago, E-minor7 said:

A bit overstated for you, chap. .  ?

Apparently, I can't delete myself fast enough.

[E-minor7]

1 minute ago, 62burst said:

Apparently, I can't delete myself fast enough.

Aha, , okay, , , just don't withdraw from the Board again. That would be overstating. 

[Leonard McCoy]

How to relic an acoustic? If anyone could answer that question, they surely wouldn't—or at least not here—but start their own business doing it considering that how to relic an electric is still in its infancy, making an awful lot of money already, and the very few that can relic don't always succeed.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Leonard McCoy