Maybe I’m alone in thinking this, but…

[SGLPFB_Lover]

I have to admit something.  I was really happy when JC moved in and restructured the Gibson line-up.  The HJ era was whacky, to say the least, and it was nice to see some stabilization . 
But then some things started not settling right with me.  Mark Agnesi , who I loved watching his Norm’s Guitars videos, did his “we’re watching you” thing.  I then started to notice that it seemed that Gibson was being positioned and priced to server a higher end clientele, signature models for performers who have had multiple models already, or signature models designed by oddly paired performers (nothing against Gene, but he doesnt evoke “Gibson” to me), short run signatures priced  at a premium, signature acoustics (I know I Always wanted a Jerry Cantrell acoustic?!??!?!?).

i look over at Fender who are blazing the market with cool, fresh stuff and are focusing on younger generational players. Gibson’s focus is really not centered on where it should be in my opinion.  Its boring now, expensive (i mean…they could expand the tribute series/melody makers to all styles and have quality usa made gibsons under $1000).  Instead, there  is a price increase of $200 pretty much across the board. I think higher priced Gibsons have their place, but those entry level Gibsons are where young players step in.  And before you say “Buy an Epiphone”, QC still sucks bad with them, so I dont count that as a stepping stone brand…

Anyway, the only cool thing that seems to be happening is the mod shop.  Some really great stuff comes through there. Fresh, different, a spin on something traditional.  Kinda like when HJ ran things.

So yeah….Gibson is wholly uninspiring to me now.  Thankfully I own as many as I need, but its a brand my Grandmother performed with (1956 L-48 ), my Father (1959 Gibson Les Paul Special), Me (too many to list, and my son (Gibson VOS Les Paul Special like his grandfathers) play. We are a Gibson family and want the brand to succeed.  It just feels like the person who isnt a Lawyer, or Doctor is getting snubbed.  Gibson has those people locked in.  It be nice if they turned their attention to the regular folk. Just my opinion….

[jdgm]

Certainly the prices are very high indeed now.

I live in the UK and looking at Anderton's (big UK dealer) Gibson stock list, many of the guitars are well over £5k(GBP).

To me that is similar to a brand new car; when you drive it out of the dealers, it probably loses up to 30-40% of it's value (what you paid for it).

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by jdgm

[sparquelito]

A good topic for discussion. 
Thank you for this, SGLPFB_Lover. 

I can recall when Gibson endeavored to produce a line of affordable, made in the USA Gibsons, just six years ago. 
The S Series. 

You would have thought that they would be enthusiastically received, widely praised, and would sell like hot-cakes. 
Nope. 

Sure, they sold, eventually. 
And now they all fetch, used, two or three times the original MSRP on Craigslist, eBay, and Reverb. 
(I own two of them myself.)

But when they came out, the S Series Gibsons were panned, criticized, and ridiculed. 
"What's this cheap junk here? "
"Gibson has lost their mind!"
"How dare they call this a Les Paul!!"

Too funny. 

For the record, my S Series Les Paul and Firebird are two of my favorite guitars. 
🙂

Modded Les Paul Custom Studio.

Bone-stock Firebird Zero. 

[merciful-evans]

Hello & welcome to he forum,

Sorry to hear you are disappointed about the state of Gibsons. Of course there are plenty of other guitars to consider & its great to have choice.

Good luck

[Sgt. Pepper]

SGLPFB, yep I am sure many have the same thoughts. CJ is a businessman. He was the CEO of Levi’s and before that he was a big wig in the UK’s Mars / M&M Candy Company, so naturally the next step is CEO of one on the biggest Guitar makers in the USA. Jeans, candy and guitars are basically all the same things and need to be marketed exactly the same right? He was brought in to get the investors money back. 

[zigzag]

Not sure, but Larry Carlton, Mr. 335,  may have left Gibson to endorse Sire Guitars, whose models seem to be priced like Epiphones.

https://sire-usa.com/pages/our-brand

[kidblast]

4 hours ago, SGLPFB_Lover said:

I have to admit something.  I was really happy when JC moved in and restructured the Gibson line-up.  The HJ era was whacky, to say the least, and it was nice to see some stabilization . 
But then some things started not settling right with me.  Mark Agnesi , who I loved watching his Norm’s Guitars videos, did his “we’re watching you” thing.  I then started to notice that it seemed that Gibson was being positioned and priced to server a higher end clientele, signature models for performers who have had multiple models already, or signature models designed by oddly paired performers (nothing against Gene, but he doesnt evoke “Gibson” to me), short run signatures priced  at a premium, signature acoustics (I know I Always wanted a Jerry Cantrell acoustic?!??!?!?).

i look over at Fender who are blazing the market with cool, fresh stuff and are focusing on younger generational players. Gibson’s focus is really not centered on where it should be in my opinion.  Its boring now, expensive (i mean…they could expand the tribute series/melody makers to all styles and have quality usa made gibsons under $1000).  Instead, there  is a price increase of $200 pretty much across the board. I think higher priced Gibsons have their place, but those entry level Gibsons are where young players step in.  And before you say “Buy an Epiphone”, QC still sucks bad with them, so I dont count that as a stepping stone brand…

Anyway, the only cool thing that seems to be happening is the mod shop.  Some really great stuff comes through there. Fresh, different, a spin on something traditional.  Kinda like when HJ ran things.

So yeah….Gibson is wholly uninspiring to me now.  Thankfully I own as many as I need, but its a brand my Grandmother performed with (1956 L-48 ), my Father (1959 Gibson Les Paul Special), Me (too many to list, and my son (Gibson VOS Les Paul Special like his grandfathers) play. We are a Gibson family and want the brand to succeed.  It just feels like the person who isnt a Lawyer, or Doctor is getting snubbed.  Gibson has those people locked in.  It be nice if they turned their attention to the regular folk. Just my opinion….

I find one of the biggest differences in Fender to Gibson is the range of "Fender" branded gear.  (Amps AND guitars)  and lets face it, Fender Amps are still grabbing a crap load of the market, and it's justified, they are good products.

Plus when Fender unleashes a product for the blue collar and working-class stiffs, they tend to be hits. 

Like the Vintera,and Squire Classic Vibe stuff  All really quite good, and not too hard on the wallet.

 

On the other side, when Gibson puts a moderate priced product out, no one likes em.

Even though structurally, they are probably ok and "Some" people like em, most people don't.  They want something like J45 or Hummingbird but they want to spend 800 bucks to get it

This is where the IBG stuff kind of comes in to focus.  

Which brings about the next thought..

I'd kind of disagree where Epiphone QC is over all bad, I don't find this so, not anymore.  The QC is much better lately. 

[fortyearspickn]

 

One wonders how toxic the culture JC created at LEVIS was.  Recently their Brands CEO (#2 Exec)  was forced out by their "Diversity Officer" for being politically incorrect about mandates in San Fransicko.   She turned down a $1M  non-disclosure agreement so she would be able to expose LEVIS' lack of a 'business focus'.    Sometimes it seems these big corporations are run by people with big egos who use the corporation to bask in their glory - rather than actually rolling up their sleeves to put the customer first, so the business can follow the market. 

Mars M&Ms recently changed their marketing focus by changing the character they use - dressed up M&M candy.   Made a couple of them 'gender neutral'.   Disney outfitted Minnie Mouse in a pants suit.      My point is - I don't think the biggest corporations feel they will lose any 'market share'  if they use their platforms (IE. advertising bucks) to modify our thinking on things complete unrelated to guitars, jeans, candy, etc.   Last election cycle (Summer of Love, 2020) Levi's ran national tv ads on 'voting'.   I don't recall them running national tv ads on jeans ever. 

So,  yeah.  I don't think  'guitars'  are the central focus at Gibson anymore,  in the sense of making good, solid, desirable, affordable ones.   'Shmoooze'  is what we use to call this new business model:   Marketing - sell the sizzle, not the steak. 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I believe Pete Townsend wrote this line : meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Well maybe it’s : meet the new boss, worse than the old boss.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Sgt. Pepper

[JO'C]

1 hour ago, zigzag said:

Not sure, but Larry Carlton, Mr. 335,  may have left Gibson to endorse Sire Guitars, whose models seem to be priced like Epiphones.

https://sire-usa.com/pages/our-brand

I checked out their site because I used to have a Larry Carlton ES-335. Good looking stuff, styled after 335, LP, Strat and Tele. Only problem is every thing is listed as "sold out". Wonder if they are still kicking?

[JO'C]

Did a little more research. Even though they are Sire USA, the guitars are made in Indonesia, hence the low pricing. Inventory is probably stuck on a ship in the supply chain traffic jam.

[Pinch]

It's almost rude of them to ask the current prices. $1999 for a Standard would be fair-ish. Edging towards $3k is borderline offensive. 

[Sgt. Pepper]

9 minutes ago, Pinch said:

It's almost rude of them to ask the current prices. $1999 for a Standard would be fair-ish. Edging towards $3k is borderline offensive. 

Your not a rich CEO with a wife and 2 kids to feed, the struggle is real at Gibson.

[Pinch]

7 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Your not a rich CEO with a wife and 2 kids to feed, the struggle is real at Gibson.

Mm. I wonder if an Epi Slash will be good enough. The reviews on Youtube are pretty impressive. 

[Sgt. Pepper]

1 minute ago, Pinch said:

Mm. I wonder if an Epi Slash will be good enough. The reviews on Youtube are pretty impressive. 

If it plugs in I don't want it and I won't play it.

[Pinch]

2 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

If it plugs in I don't want it and I won't play it.

A little beside the point, but beside the point is what we do here nowadays 😉 I was actually a little taken aback by the OP. He had, like, a point and stuff. 

[Sgt. Pepper]

2 minutes ago, Pinch said:

A little beside the point, but beside the point is what we do here nowadays 😉 I was actually a little taken aback by the OP. He had, like, a point and stuff. 

Your right and one some here probably agree with but are not willing to post about, cause they don't want the flack and backlash. As you know I ain't scared.

[NighthawkChris]

I’m blaming it on covid. I blame everything on it these days. 

[Sgt. Pepper]

8 minutes ago, NighthawkChris said:

I’m blaming it on covid. I blame everything on it these days. 

I think Gibson dopes their guitars and they get away with it.

[SGLPFB_Lover]

Hi all- My post was really not to bash Gibson.  I won’t play another brand, nor do I have any interest (there are many fine brands of guitar, Gibson is our family lifestyle).  I just wanted to point out that I feel a certain disconnect with the company and its seemingly uninterest in a line more geared for a lower in budget. 

i believe the earlier attempts (M2, etc,) were bombed simply because they slid in parts not made in America, and had questionable design and QC issues.

I bought a Gibson Les Paul Special Tribute for $999. It is a PHENOMENAL guitar. It quite literally matched my sons VOS special in almost every way tonally.  I also have a SG Tribute which ALSO just flat out sounds amazing.  I just feel Gibson could take their whole line and create a “tribute” selection (SG, Les Paul, Flying V, Explorer, Firebird) and keep a $999 price point and it would cover sooooo many people that want the Gibson experience and sound that dont have fat wallets.  
It’s great that we can see Guekian’s multi million dollar Gibson collection, or Brian Rey’s Les Paul swimming pool, but it would be even better to see Mark going to garages where the new seeds of rock are sprouting, being played on affordable Gibsons. Or seeing how an entry level Gibson has artistically opened a player’s ability, encouraging other young players to buy that tribute firebird, or les paul.  Seeing Guekians loot from being a multi million dollar business man, or Joe’s, or Brian’s, or who evers guitar collection does nothing to inspire the youth and gigging artists.  You jave to have a line of instruments, and examples of how awesome they are, in the hands of people like you and me to keep this incredible brand relevant.

[Larsongs]

I must admit Gibson spending a bunch of $$$ after their BK promoting an older Artist, Slash, who already had his day doesn’t seem like a great Restructuring strategy?

I do think Gibson could reintroduce a Sunburst Firebird VII like Brian Jones & Keith Richards played. And a few other Guitars.. Also, the Epiphone Rivoli Bass..  Also the CF-100E’s & J-160E’s.. Also, the Terada line of Casino’s & other popular mid priced high quality models…

I respectfully disagree with the OP’s statement re: QC for Epiphone vs. low end Squier in the same Price range.. I have Some Recent Epi’s that have xlnt QC out of the box.. I bought 4 Squiers that were POS & returned them all.. took 5 to get one that was decent enough to keep.. 

 

[kidblast]

3 hours ago, Pinch said:

It's almost rude of them to ask the current prices. $1999 for a Standard would be fair-ish. Edging towards $3k is borderline offensive. 

what's even worse is the sloppy work that seems to pass as totally acceptable.    Somedays the words "I just don't get it" seem to be the siren song  

with the supply chain,  nutty price hikes, and slipping QC.....  it's a jungle out there.  I'm also kind of happy I that I'm not in the market for anything along these lines right now

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by kidblast

[kidblast]

1 hour ago, SGLPFB_Lover said:

Hi all- My post was really not to bash Gibson.  I won’t play another brand, nor do I have any interest (there are many fine brands of guitar, Gibson is our family lifestyle).  I just wanted to point out that I feel a certain disconnect with the company and its seemingly uninterest in a line more geared for a lower in budget. 

i believe the earlier attempts (M2, etc,) were bombed simply because they slid in parts not made in America, and had questionable design and QC issues.

I bought a Gibson Les Paul Special Tribute for $999. It is a PHENOMENAL guitar. It quite literally matched my sons VOS special in almost every way tonally.  I also have a SG Tribute which ALSO just flat out sounds amazing.  I just feel Gibson could take their whole line and create a “tribute” selection (SG, Les Paul, Flying V, Explorer, Firebird) and keep a $999 price point and it would cover sooooo many people that want the Gibson experience and sound that dont have fat wallets.  
It’s great that we can see Guekian’s multi million dollar Gibson collection, or Brian Rey’s Les Paul swimming pool, but it would be even better to see Mark going to garages where the new seeds of rock are sprouting, being played on affordable Gibsons. Or seeing how an entry level Gibson has artistically opened a player’s ability, encouraging other young players to buy that tribute firebird, or les paul.  Seeing Guekians loot from being a multi million dollar business man, or Joe’s, or Brian’s, or who evers guitar collection does nothing to inspire the youth and gigging artists.  You jave to have a line of instruments, and examples of how awesome they are, in the hands of people like you and me to keep this incredible brand relevant.

no man  we get it.  I don't think any thing you've written has anything but an honest, and frank opinion.  One that many of us share.

love the sinners, hate the sin.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

53 minutes ago, Larsongs said:

I must admit Gibson spending a bunch of $$$ after their BK promoting an older Artist, Slash, who already had his day doesn’t seem like a great Restructuring strategy?

I do think Gibson could reintroduce a Sunburst Firebird VII like Brian Jones & Keith Richards played. And a few other Guitars.. Also, the Epiphone Rivoli Bass..  Also the CF-100E’s & J-160E’s.. Also, the Terada line of Casino’s & other popular mid priced high quality models…

I respectfully disagree with the OP’s statement re: QC for Epiphone vs. low end Squier in the same Price range.. I have Some Recent Epi’s that have xlnt QC out of the box.. I bought 4 Squiers that were POS & returned them all.. took 5 to get one that was decent enough to keep.. 

 

Who is buying Gibson's? 14 year old's who listen to the newest and greatest out now, that will have shelf life of 2 years, or old f-arts like us. Is Slash relevant? Don't know or care. If I want to listen to him I will. He is a great player, but bores the c-rap out of me. I haven't listened to Appetite in several years and could care less about anything else he played on. The people Gibson are target are any ones willing to plunk down the money they are charging. Which is the moral majority here.

[NighthawkChris]

So if I am understanding, there have been many points by @SGLPFB_Lover to where the "connection" that needs to be made is Gibson with upcoming artists.  And we need to see less expensive Gibsons on the shelves that are of "Gibson" quality for these poorer, upcoming artists.  Just want to make sure I can file this one down to a diamond here. 

I'm a great driver.  I know BMW makes some great handling vehicles out there that could inspire me to really get into the driving experience.  Well, if I don't have the dough, gotta go.  Basically, if you want a Gibson, you're gonna pay.  They place themselves in that upper tier to charge thousands for their merch, and they've been doing this for years (charging for their name on the headstock) like it or not.  They have customers out there who are paying their bills apparently, so if they don't connect with you, then that's just too bad the way they look at it.  When I was a kid who wanted the Gibson, well... I got the Epiphone...  And to go back, BMW doesn't care about connecting with people like me - i.e. making more affordable vehicle of "BMW quality".  Gibson believes they are like the "BMW" (or the best) guitar maker out there.  They believe they are ICONIC!  Not trying to be a jerk here, but come on man...  This isn't news here - Gibson charging high AF prices for their stuff.  They've made their point many, many times they don't want to connect with the garage band crews around the globe.  Those garage band crews are playing Epiphones or something that isn't Gibson because they don't have the dough.  Gibson likes to connect with select rich famous artists - such as Slash - not you.