Sgt. Pepper Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 (edited) Here is my advice then - don’t buy a Martin. Murphy never will, so he’s just once again stirring the pot. And Lars there are so many other makers out there, go purchase one of them, or get a guitar made Bozeman. Problem solved. Edited January 3, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 36 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said: Here is my advice then - don’t buy a Martin. Murphy never will, so he’s just once again stirring the pot. And Lars there are so many other makers out there, go purchase one of them, or get a guitar made Bozeman. Problem solved. "Stirring the Pot" !?? ! Considering the sourcel .... I almost fell out of my chair. Two issues: - How specific will Martin be on their wood specs? - How much would you spend for a guitar where you didn't know what type of spruce was used on the top (given there are 40 species of spruce but only 5 are used for soundboards)? Regarding the first - Clearly, their intent is to be Less Specific, and Less 'Accountable'. This announcement opens the door - making it harder for the manufacturer of a high volume of guitars to keep track, and harder for customers to know. Temptation enters - 'should we start using cheaper Lutz on the lower end guitars and not mention it?' Regarding the second - Customer Expectation when purchasing an 'expensive' guitar !! "Disposable Income/Guitar Fund" is always subjective Some here have a lot of money sitting in cases in their spare bedroom. Some like me were happy with one Gibson for 40 years. So we have to go at this based on an assumption of an 'average buyer' and an 'average budget'. But in addition to budgetary differences, some here are Cork Sniffers while some are legitimate experts on all things acoustic. So - I don't think it's possible to get us all to agree on this. I assume Martin is creating a market niche for those who purchase who are actually 'average'. They know they want 'Spruce' but aren't discriminating enough to demand "Adirondack' or 'Sitka'. So, they will eventually get a less desirable one. Not the top 5 - one of the other 35. Balsa Baby ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 9 hours ago, Larsongs said: For another, Necks will be referred to as hard wood.. Not Mahogany or ? There will be other unspecified Materials for Fretboards.. There is more in other Articles.. I’m just posting an FYI.. To each his own…. If I’m buying a $399.00 Epiphone or Squier I’m interested in how good it plays, sounds, looks & if it appears to be good quality for the money & not much more…. If I’m spending $3000.00, $4,000.00 or more for a Premium Guitar I expect more… A lot more. How it plays, sounds, looks & quality, are important.. But, for that kind & money I expect more.. A Premium Guitar & Premium Customer Satisfaction.. I expect the Spec Sheet.. That’s my prerogative… If it’s not yours, that’s fine.. Where does it say anywhere that you won't have specs for your 4 thousand dollar guitar? Where is that? I want to get some of this anger too, but it doesn't seem to exist. rct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, fortyearspickn said: "Stirring the Pot" !?? ! Considering the sourcel .... I almost fell out of my chair. Two issues: - How specific will Martin be on their wood specs? - How much would you spend for a guitar where you didn't know what type of spruce was used on the top (given there are 40 species of spruce but only 5 are used for soundboards)? Regarding the first - Clearly, their intent is to be Less Specific, and Less 'Accountable'. This announcement opens the door - making it harder for the manufacturer of a high volume of guitars to keep track, and harder for customers to know. Temptation enters - 'should we start using cheaper Lutz on the lower end guitars and not mention it?' Regarding the second - Customer Expectation when purchasing an 'expensive' guitar !! "Disposable Income/Guitar Fund" is always subjective Some here have a lot of money sitting in cases in their spare bedroom. Some like me were happy with one Gibson for 40 years. So we have to go at this based on an assumption of an 'average buyer' and an 'average budget'. But in addition to budgetary differences, some here are Cork Sniffers while some are legitimate experts on all things acoustic. So - I don't think it's possible to get us all to agree on this. I assume Martin is creating a market niche for those who purchase who are actually 'average'. They know they want 'Spruce' but aren't discriminating enough to demand "Adirondack' or 'Sitka'. So, they will eventually get a less desirable one. Not the top 5 - one of the other 35. Balsa Baby ! Oh there is no doubt it my mind I'm a s-hit disturber, and admitted here many times I'm an A-hole. Ever seen where I posted that cause I have many times? So do you guys now where the metal was taken out of the ground, and what the alloy content is for the screws and tuners that are on your Gibsons? How about what company makes the paint, and nitro, and the glue? What is the binding, that doesn't fall off of your Gibsons actually made of? What is Richlite really made of that Gibson used for a while? How F-in far do you want to go with this shizza? I asked Murph what specific species of Walnut, RW and Ebony are on his guitars, and all I got was crickets? So is it important to him if his Gibson are made of Madagascar Ebony, English Walnut, or EIRW, or the 15 or so species of each wood? Has he done the research to find out, probably not. Its only important to him what another guitar maker does, so he can have a talking point, and another thread to bash Martin. Edited January 3, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 Murf may be coming from the same place 'average buyers' do - where they pay an 'average price' and have 'average expectations'. AND.... High Price = higher expectations. Don't bother asking 90% of the people here which species of wood their face, neck and b/s are. At least until you've asked that question over on the Martin Forum. OH, WAIT .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 If you think Martin's got wood probs, just remember that Gibson didn't use ebony for five years. There's no ebony in D-Block. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 (edited) 35 minutes ago, fortyearspickn said: Murf may be coming from the same place 'average buyers' do - where they pay an 'average price' and have 'average expectations'. AND.... High Price = higher expectations. Don't bother asking 90% of the people here which species of wood their face, neck and b/s are. At least until you've asked that question over on the Martin Forum. OH, WAIT .... Yeah but I'm not concerned about it. Just commenting on the foolishness of it. A guy who isn't going to buy one is though. Kind of ridiculous - No - Yes - Maybe? He has made a comment about the wood in more than one thread. Edited January 3, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, badbluesplayer said: If you think Martin's got wood probs, just remember that Gibson didn't use ebony for five years. There's no ebony in D-Block. That's why some Gibby's have compressed sawdust and resin for fretboards. Martin uses it, but only on their lower end Mex junk. Edited January 3, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 But really..... I find it hard to believe that Martin managed to stay in business since 1833 by being underhanded. And does anyone know just what KIND of spit Gibson mixes with their glue? And maybe that's why that one company calls their product GORILLA glue! Whitefang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Whitefang said: But really..... I find it hard to believe that Martin managed to stay in business since 1833 by being underhanded. And does anyone know just what KIND of spit Gibson mixes with their glue? And maybe that's why that one company calls their product GORILLA glue! Whitefang Haven't all the owners of The Martin Guitar Company had the last name of Martin? A family business instead of, we ran the company into the ground, lets sell and start over and over and over. Edited January 3, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryNimda Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 2 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said: That's why some Gibby's have compressed sawdust and resin for fretboards. Martin uses it, but only on their lower end Mex junk. I presume, that it is not Richlite that you are talking about here, but some cheaper way to make lower end fretboards. Out of curiosity, I Googled Richlite, and it is made from "high quality paper with resin":https://www.richlite.com/whatisrichlite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, OrdinaryNimda said: I presume, that it is not Richlite that you are talking about here, but some cheaper way to make lower end fretboards. Out of curiosity, I Googled Richlite, and it is made from "high quality paper with resin":https://www.richlite.com/whatisrichlite Richlite is indeed it. High quality paper is where the tone is. But what species of wood did this high quality paper come from? Edited January 3, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 Anyone want the spec sheet from Gibson from when they used Richlite, No? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 4 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said: Anyone want the spec sheet from Gibson from when they used Richlite, No? Stirring the pot? If richlite is ON the spec sheet, you missed the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, fortyearspickn said: Stirring the pot? If richlite is ON the spec sheet, you missed the point. No I get it, you guys/girls/it’s are taking this way to seriously. You think Martin is going to just all of a sudden start to employ 5 year old snot nose kids to make guitars out of Balsa wood, and look like laughing stocks? If you buy a Martin and spend serious cash your getting good wood. Or go buy a Taylor. Edited January 4, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 19 minutes ago, ghost_of_fl said: I hate when my guitar sounds like Swietenia macrophylla. 🤮 That’s disgusting. There could be children present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 1 hour ago, fortyearspickn said: That’s disgusting. There could be children present. It’s a species of wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted January 4, 2023 Author Share Posted January 4, 2023 I’m sure Martin is still building some of the best Guitars on the Planet! I love the ones I own as much as my Gibson J-160E & Epiphone Texan… I’ve Special Ordered my Cars & Trucks for many years.. I want certain Specs.. I’ve always got the Build Sheets providing The Specs.. When I bought all my Studio Gear I wanted certain Equipment & wanted the Specs.. And always got the Specs from the Companies.. I have about a dozen Amps.. I wanted them with certain Specs.. All of them came with the Specs… I just wish they would be more forthwith as to their Content.. I wish all Premium Guitar Builders would be also… I’m not understanding why they don’t want to provide them.. A simple letter or number in the Serial Number isn’t difficult… Or a Spec Sheet in the Case Candy.. It’s not hard to do.. I’ve wanted a D-45 for years.. I still do.. I will want the Specs though… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Larsongs said: I’m sure Martin is still building some of the best Guitars on the Planet! I love the ones I own as much as my Gibson J-160E & Epiphone Texan… I’ve Special Ordered my Cars & Trucks for many years.. I want certain Specs.. I’ve always got the Build Sheets providing The Specs.. When I bought all my Studio Gear I wanted certain Equipment & wanted the Specs.. And always got the Specs from the Companies.. I have about a dozen Amps.. I wanted them with certain Specs.. All of them came with the Specs… I just wish they would be more forthwith as to their Content.. I wish all Premium Guitar Builders would be also… I’m not understanding why they don’t want to provide them.. A simple letter or number in the Serial Number isn’t difficult… Or a Spec Sheet in the Case Candy.. It’s not hard to do.. I’ve wanted a D-45 for years.. I still do.. I will want the Specs though… If you buy a D-45 you think your getting some inferior POS? No your not. Your getting an amazing axe. Or just go buy a J-45 and tell us how Jackson Browne-y it is circa For Everyman. Edited January 4, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFord Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 I want a guitar that has made up wood names like Chromite and Korina. And it had better be put together with hot hide glue or NO SALE! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 10 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said: It’s a species of wood. Yeah, I know. Mahogany. Thanks . It was a joke. Like Sarcasm. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 22 hours ago, fortyearspickn said: Murf may be coming from the same place 'average buyers' do - where they pay an 'average price' and have 'average expectations'. AND.... High Price = higher expectations. Don't bother asking 90% of the people here which species of wood their face, neck and b/s are. At least until you've asked that question over on the Martin Forum. OH, WAIT .... I'm a gigger. My guitar has never been in my bedroom. It has it's own room with the others, the amps, the p.a. gear and mountains of cases and cords and stands. I usually have 2 or 3 projects going at the same time. There's a Martin Forum ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted January 4, 2023 Author Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said: If you buy a D-45 you think your getting some inferior POS? No your not. Your getting an amazing axe. Or just go buy a J-45 and tell us how Jackson Browne-y it is circa For Everyman. When I buy my D-45 I know it will be a fantastic Guitar because, I will see it, play it & get the Spec Sheet! I already have the ultimate J-45….. A 20 year old Bozeman Masterbilt Solid Top Gibson J-160E!!! I should’ve bought 2! I also have a magical 50 year old Martin D-35!!! I should’ve bought 2 of them too.. With those 2 Acoustic Guitars I don’t really need any other Acoustic 6 String Guitar.. But, after playing a few D-45’s that looked & sounded out of this world good, I’ve always wanted a D-45… Still, I would want the Spec Sheet! Every Guitar I’ve bought in the past 8 years I’ve got the Spec Sheets along with the rest of the Case Candy.. (I should’ve been doing that from the first Guitar I ever bought). I keep them in a File along with the Original Receipts.. I don’t care if no one else does that… It’s my prerogative… Edited January 4, 2023 by Larsongs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Larsongs said: When I buy my D-45 I know it will be a fantastic Guitar because, I will see it, play it & read the Spec Sheet! I already have the ultimate J-45….. A 20 year old Bozeman Masterbilt Solid Top Gibson J-160E!!! I also have a magical 50 year old Martin D-35!!! With those 2 Acoustic Guitars I don’t really need any other Acoustic 6 String Guitar.. But, after playing a few, that looked & sounded out of this world good, I’ve always wanted a D-45… Still, I want the Spec Sheet! Every Guitar I’ve bought in the past 8 years I’ve got the Spec Sheets along with the rest of the Case Candy.. I keep them in a File along with the Original Receipts.. I don’t care if no one else does that… It’s my prerogative… 2 of the 3 Martins I now own were bought used. I have a 12 string J12-16GT my wife bought me. I never play it, and the only reason its still around is cause it was a gift. I guess this spec sheet stuff is interfering with some members sleep. I guess if you gotta have it, you gotta have it. But like you said you already have the ultimate J-45 with spec sheet and case candy (I guess the other J-45 guys are jealous). Did the, I'm guessing '72 or '73 D-35 come with a spec sheet and case candy? I had 2 but sold them. The first one was better than the second. I'm over owning Dreads. Unless I can find a 000-28EC and M-36 I can afford my 000-18 and 000-28 with no case candy or spec sheets will have to do. What a loser I am with no spec sheet. I should be banished to guitar jail. You mentioned in the last 8 years you have all the spec sheets and case candy. How can you stomach playing and owning the ones that don't. Martin might have slipped in some questionable wood and the spec sheet would really help out. Some of you guys take cork sniffing to a new level. Edited January 4, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 9 hours ago, Murph said: There's a Martin Forum Sarcasm… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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