onewilyfool Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I'm soliciting help from the forum for advice on songwriting...... Here is my starting point and summary of my skill level (intermediate player) .... 1. I LOVE arranging songs for covers, I will jazz them up, play them in a different key than the original, change cadence, anything to make them my own. 2. I "think" chordally when writing songs, and I love chord progressions and transition chords, and embellishments along melody lines.....I'm pretty good at coming up with melodies.....but have more of a struggle with words. 3. I play by ear, I can record the chords graphically, can struggle with TAB to remember riffs, but can't read music at all. 4. I can write prose very easily, and would be more able at this time to write a short story than a poem or a song, but words come easy to me, I just get stuck when trying to write songs......I am attracted to songs that tell a story.... 5. I have the beginnings of about 5 songs, but can't seem to get over that "hump" of finishing a song for the life of me.....lol.... 6. I think the "genre" i will be delving into first, is blues, and second, country......since these are the most simple song formats to start with for me.... 7. I have no knowledge of "copyright" or how to protect authorship...... Any help, links, or advice would be greatly appreciated, I'm amazed by the songs folks have written and posted up in the forum, pros and amateurs alike, and would really like to benefit from your expertise.......thanks...WIly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I am no expert! I have been concentrating on improving my guitar playing, and haven't written a thing in years, BUT a thousand years or so ago in the weirder years, I had a go at singing in a rock band! One catch - I had to write the lyrics to this guitarist's riffs. What a fabulous and tenuous experience. I saw the band playing a few years later and they were still mangling my lyrics! But that is another story... So from this I come with a tip - isolate the parts and start easy. 1. Take a couple of VERY easy songs you know and change the lyrics. Then do it again. And again. 2. After doing this a number of times, play and tape a VERY simple guitar riff - DON"T STRUM - Smoke on the water riff Dunt, Dunt, Dah! type of things. Play the recording back over and over and see if a few lyrics come to your head. Don't give up - try other riffs. Keep away from blues and common tunes - all been DONE. (I'm gonna get up in the morning, baby I'm gonna make a broom). etc 3. Get a guitar friend to write a simple guitar part and you write some lyrics. Stay and start simple - the opus may not come immediately...don't what ever you do, try too hard. Hope this helps UNBLOCK. BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I have always had a knack for arranging stuff - I have been told I can take an old blues tune and make it my own (he says as he pats his own back). Writing though - I am actually OK at intros and bridges but everything else just seems to sound like something else. Then again, as Elvis Costello once said, we are all vultures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneS Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I'm soliciting help from the forum for advice on songwriting...... Here is my starting point and summary of my skill level (intermediate player) .... 1. I LOVE arranging songs for covers, I will jazz them up, play them in a different key than the original, change cadence, anything to make them my own. 2. I "think" chordally when writing songs, and I love chord progressions and transition chords, and embellishments along melody lines.....I'm pretty good at coming up with melodies.....but have more of a struggle with words. 3. I play by ear, I can record the chords graphically, can struggle with TAB to remember riffs, but can't read music at all. 4. I can write prose very easily, and would be more able at this time to write a short story than a poem or a song, but words come easy to me, I just get stuck when trying to write songs......I am attracted to songs that tell a story.... 5. I have the beginnings of about 5 songs, but can't seem to get over that "hump" of finishing a song for the life of me.....lol.... 6. I think the "genre" i will be delving into first, is blues, and second, country......since these are the most simple song formats to start with for me.... 7. I have no knowledge of "copyright" or how to protect authorship...... Any help, links, or advice would be greatly appreciated, I'm amazed by the songs folks have written and posted up in the forum, pros and amateurs alike, and would really like to benefit from your expertise.......thanks...WIly Hey Wily-- A little bit ago, I posted a reply (of sorts) to your question about this in my latest new-song thread--to that, I add: The first steps are, I think, in the yearning--where you keep coming back to "it's in here somewhere, dammit!" Getting frustrated suggests that you might be editing/judging things way too soon in the process. When you've sung songs by the thousands already in your life, what comes--for the first time-- out of you is bound to sound way too familiar, especially at first. But don't let that shut you down--keep listening, keep following the thread. Just as you can make covers your own, your original song will separate itself from all the other songs that you have heard and played in your life. But the world has always known the same chords, and all the stories about the human condition have been told. So that should mean that there is a finite combination of any of those things and, hence, that there is nothing new whatsoever under the sun. Yet music, songs, make us feel to a certainty that this is NOT so. Which is why, I think, some of us need to make new ones--because they're "there." I, too, am a big "word" person--can write a thousand things a thousand ways--so I have been surprised to find this recent capacity for lyrics. As you can see, me and "economy of words" are not usually associated, but I can tell you this: for me, lyric writing is NOT like any of that other wordsmithing. Instead of being in control of the flow of words, lyric writing (more like lyric "listening??") puts the words in charge, tells me what to do. Registering your material is breathtakingly easy. You'd start here: http://www.copyright.gov/ For $35, you can electronically register a single original work or a collection of original works (can't remember the limit, if there is one). You just upload an mp3 file--don't even have to attach lyrics or written notations. You have protection from the time you file, and it'll take several months to get your certificate. ("Copyright" is a confusing term--strictly speaking, you are under common law the copywright owner of a work at the moment you say so--but you get statutory protection only when you register your right.) Point is, this part is easy and inexpensive. (I believe, were you to find a publisher, you'd have to have the work registered first.) Look at me--acting like I know sh**! Mostly, though, I mean to be encouraging, cause if you got the itch, it's one satisfying scratch. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6stringTom Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Writing good songs is hard. It is a demanding format in which rhythm, meter, and other features are largely prescribed once a basic form (eg, blues) is chosen. The best songs sound simple, but that is often a very difficult quality to achieve. I find the easiest (and most rewarding) songs to write are those around a specific event or for specific people. For example, if I tried to write a children's song it would probably be second rate. But when I write a song specifically for my granddaughters, it is pretty good (even great to them). I could cite other examples, but the point is that the specificity of the occasion and audience provide focus, motivation,and certain unique details that help make the songs special. I don't know if this would be a good starting point for others, but it might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Maybe(?)its not unlike getting over the performance hump. You know, about that song you kind of half know but never get down? Commit it to tape. That may help actualize it. Go around humming it (like the famous that "scrambled eggs" ditty). Keep a pen/paper/remote recorder ready for if the words break thru (Keef and Satisfaction, Otis Rush and 'double trouble'). Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc McMaster Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I too tend to approach a song from a chord perspective......can't read nor write myself. Best advice: blurt something out. anything. nonsense at first if necessary. Get your mouth moving and let go a phrase over an appealing chord progession. Try more than one melodic approach as you blurt. Sooner or later you will blurt out a coherent phrase that works - a point to build from. Work the melody awhile, with just that single phrase, get it workin' a little while you think about where the next line should take the story. Again, explore different directions........your phrase might be a verse, it might be a chorus......could be either at this point, huh. You say you feel more able to write a short story. That's good. A good lyric is nothing more than a very short story, well crafted. You got to boil things down.....tell the story effectively with a minimum of words. Such words must be well chosen, each and every one. Know your story from beginning to end, in detail, and it becomes much easier to pick out the right words......separate the wheat from the chafe, so to speak. You can do it.......go on.........just do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 This is very good advice...I appreciate it all....Wily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livemusic Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 As for copyright... here's my take, after ten years of reading everything I could get my hands on and hobnobbing with Nashville songwriters that write for a living. Your work is copyrighted the moment it is recorded. If it's a lyric, the moment pen hits paper. If music, the moment it is recorded on any device. REGISTERING a copyright is what many people think of as "copyright" and that's erroneous. Once more, your work is copyrighted at the moment of creation. Don't worry about copyright, take a tip from the pro's... no need to register anything until your song is about to be recorded and released as a commercial cut. If that doesn't happen, don't waste the money on registering it. Why register at all? Pro's register a copyright because that is ironclad proof of ownership date in a court of law. I think there is also a provision for being able to sue for legal fees if it's registered. But songwriters that write every day do not register their songs until they are about to be cut. You can post things online or send emails... make videos, etc... these all have time stamps. Theft has occurred but it is a hugely remote risk. You are more likely to be struck by lightning. Then again, some of us could sometimes wish for a minor lightning strike, a non-lethal glancing blow that could shake up the brain waves and get one out of writer's block. I dunno how to advise someone to write a song. Personally, I read every book I could find on songwriting. But, seems to me, people either have the ability to create, or they don't. If you can write prose and you can create chords patterns and melodies, just blend the two. Lastly, you could also write with other writers and it could spur you on to the creative process. It's very hard work to write a high quality song. I can easily write a song about just about any concept. Writing a great song is another matter. As for completing a song, I figure it takes me about one hour of writing and 39 hours of re-writing to put a song to bed. (Not an exaggeration.) Some take months, some take years. I am from the school of thought that songwriting is all about re-writing. (For me, 90% of that is crafting the lyric to be as good as you can make it.) After the initial write, I sing it, sing it, sing it... a hundred times... working on each phrase and making the story be as good as compelling as I can make it. And having it all make sense. And remember... as lyrically driven as some of us are, lyric is very important but melody trumps lyric every day of the week. Good luck, it's fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 Guys and gals......thanks for the great advice.....I also wondered how you remember your work as you are creating the song? I can write down words and chords, but when I go back, the melody line seems to escape me sometimes....do you guys have pocket recording devices for recording? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I've been writing a lot lately. I record my ideas on the voice memo function of my iPhone. Melodies will go away unless I do that. This software looks intriguing and may help if you like this sort of thing. Doesn't look cheap though: http://tanageraudioworks.com/Products/SongFrame/ Songwriter's Toolkit SoftwareMIDI Tools and UtilitiesAudible Chord Software SongFrame Songwriter's Toolkit Software Spice up your songwriting! SongFrame Songwriter's Toolkit software places a rich set of musical tools at your fingertips all aimed at improving your songwriting. Work out chords, progressions, melodies, lyrics, rhythms and song form using expert tools, and save your finished work to a form easily imported into your favorite DAW or sequencing application - complete with all your guide tracks and even markers showing every song section and chord change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livemusic Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Guys and gals......thanks for the great advice.....I also wondered how you remember your work as you are creating the song? I can write down words and chords, but when I go back, the melody line seems to escape me sometimes....do you guys have pocket recording devices for recording? Don't make the mistake of thinking you will remember your cool melody. Record it. On cellphone or small recorder. In fact, do the same with chord progressions, because the 'groove' is a lot to a song and you may not be able to replicated exactly what you were doing. I just screwed up this morning. Went to lunch thinking no way can I lose that. Yep, lost it. I get close, but it's not the same groove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Don't make the mistake of thinking you will remember your cool melody. Record it. On cellphone or small recorder. In fact, do the same with chord progressions, because the 'groove' is a lot to a song and you may not be able to replicated exactly what you were doing. I just screwed up this morning. Went to lunch thinking no way can I lose that. Yep, lost it. I get close, but it's not the same groove. Boy, I know how that one goes. Melodies and lyrics slip in and out of my head, sometimes when I'm pushing a cart through the supermarket. They come, they seem almost fully developed (usually the bridge) and by the time I get home, they're.......gone...... Maybe it's just part of getting old, but I don't like it one bit..... The other thing that happens is that melodies and lyrics pop into your head, and you wonder.....did I just think that one up, or has something I heard somewhere else triggered it? Is that my song, or did someone else write it and it stuck in my mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livemusic Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 ... The other thing that happens is that melodies and lyrics pop into your head, and you wonder.....did I just think that one up, or has something I heard somewhere else triggered it? Is that my song, or did someone else write it and it stuck in my mind? The Paul McCartney syndrome. (His song, "Yesterday," which he thought he had most likely heard somewhere.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarrr Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Most of all you need a catchy title, you know: 'you broke my heart and stomped that sucker flat' or 'everytime you throw dirt at me you loose a little ground' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moej45 Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I stopped trying to understand the process a long time ago for fear it might never show up again. I think it's just different for everyone out there who writes. For me...I've been trying to write one more song for this cd for the past 3 weeks....NOTHING. Thats the way it is with me. I get nothing for extended periods of time and then it just comes gushing out at once in an inexplicable way. I can't coax it out.... Chris Smither says that if he sits and plays long enough...day after day./....eventually "she shows up". She being the creativity or the spark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneS Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I stopped trying to understand the process a long time ago for fear it might never show up again. I think it's just different for everyone out there who writes. For me...I've been trying to write one more song for this cd for the past 3 weeks....NOTHING. Thats the way it is with me. I get nothing for extended periods of time and then it just comes gushing out at once in an inexplicable way. I can't coax it out.... Chris Smither says that if he sits and plays long enough...day after day./....eventually "she shows up". She being the creativity or the spark. Yep, for me, too, it's in the playing and the listening. And in the waiting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livemusic Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Yep, for me, too, it's in the playing and the listening. And in the waiting... If I don't have any idea what to write on, I just listen to music, searching the internet for recordings of hit songs and it will spark creativity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scratch47 Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I need some sort of inspiration which happens all around us. We just need to recognize it is there. FWIW, I wrote this after visiting my wife's aunt; confined to a nursing home: http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=10967354&q=hi&newref=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarrr Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 When you listen to someone like Bob Dylan, the lyrics are a mile long but he is equally as good at developing the music. The two don't always come together at the same time is why so many fail. 'Louie Louie' is not a good example of what I'm layin down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sboiir Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 A lot of good responses on this one. Specific happenings is always easier for me. I don't try to write the lyrics in any order. Just jot down thoughts as fast as they come to me...arrange them later, but got to get 'em on paper or recorded. Like someone else said ...don't make the mistake thinking you will remember your thoughts. Seen your recordings on this forum, they all sound good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryl M Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I am sure there are as many different processes to writing as there are writers. Here are a few 'rules' that work for me. 1) I rarely write with my guitar in my hands. When I do, my melodies start to sound too much alike. I like to write the melody from singing the lyrics, then figure out the chords on the guitar. 2) I keep a little recorder handy, so not to forget the song I'm working on. 3) Listen for ideas. Something someone says, something on TV, a phrase that catches your attention. Songs build easier around memorable ideas. 4) Write in general terms. Don't be too specific or too autobiographical. A song needs the "That's my story" factor to the listener. 5) When choosing between a word that rhymes and a word that's close but makes more sense, choose what helps the song make sense. Most of all, keep writing. Not all of your songs are going to be good, but they keep you in the frame of mind to write. Legendary songwriter Harlan Howard used to call the bad songs 'pencil sharpeners'. Each one gets you closer to a great one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT Hurley Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 One fellow I know who is a prolific talented songwriter said this when asked how he writes such good songs. He said"You just have to write allot of shitty ones first." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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