Do any of you believe in "Organic foods/products"?

[Tman]

I buy organic when available and also grass fed beef and free range air chilled chickens.

[grampa]

There is no doubt the more natural is more better but there is a matter of feasibility. Who wants to grow their own wheat to make their own flour? We as consumers should demand the healthiest foods from the market. We as consumers are also responsible for watching what we eat and we shoiuld also be wary of natural claims. Food is big business and business is known to sometimes mistakenly make claims about their product in order to sell it. Read the labels. We have a right to know what we are eating. We should also educate ourselves. The smarter we are the better we are.

[EVOL!]

 

Now I do grow my own veggies and still have tomatoes on my plants and a few have just started turning red; yummy. My orange tree still has about 15 oranges left on it and they are frigging great. In about a year or so I will be moving a little further north and buying a property with at least a acre of land so I can do a larger garden and canning for my own. Then organic means something....

 

 

I like your style. My goal is to get that garden going next year. We live in the city so it isn't as simple as tilling our plot and start planting. I either have to get my dirt tested for heavy metals (Judas Priest, Iron Madden, Black Sabbath, etc ) or build a box to fill with soil. Ultimately, that is your best option to eat healthily and organic.

[EVOL!]

 

These topics are considered controversial at best and I'm sure Evol or someone else will yell at me for one reason or another. The bottom line is if you're being local produce only or organic only or vegan and don't eat anything that casts a shadow, be an INFORMED one.

 

I can't stand when people take the moral high ground argument with this whole organic thing. If you want to eat only organic just make sure you read both sides of the pamphlet.

 

 

I hope I don't come off as too much of a arrogant jerk face. That's not my intent and I know it can be hard to gauge tone and context on the internet.

[sneakerpimp]

...I can't stand when people take the moral high ground argument with this whole organic thing...

 

this is exactly why i keep it to myself.

[surfpup]

...or build a box to fill with soil. Ultimately, that is your best option to eat healthily and organic.

 

That's the way to do it. We have decent dirt, but I boxed our garden anyway so I can add compost, manure, peat, etc. easily. We ate some of our lettuce today and the broccoli should start heading up soon.

 

As for pesticides (it is Florida after all - we got bugs on our bugs!) I use an organic soap product seems to keep most of them away and it's safe to eat.

 

I'd also recommend a compost bin. You can make your really good dirt with the food scraps you'd normally throw away. I got a (recylcled) plastic one from Amazon at the start of summer, and it's already making great dirt.

[Artie Owl]

I hope I don't come off as too much of a arrogant jerk face. That's not my intent and I know it can be hard to gauge tone and context on the internet.

Lol nah no more than anyone else including myself on the internets. Its just usually when topics like this come up we differ on opinion. If we all agreed with eachother this would be a boring forum.

 

When it comes to organic I'm just very skeptical and would rather grow my own than pay more for what is largely the same business growing my grocery store produce.

[Riffster]

We buy selected organic products, milk is a no-brainer, after my wife started buying it there is no going back.

 

I do not buy into the word "organic" necessarily but I do buy into the word "quality" as defined by myself, of course.

[Gaolee]

We buy organic stuff, mostly because it tastes better. Grass fed beef tastes like I remember beef tasting when I was little, so that's what we eat. It's a choice we make, but I don't have any issues with other people doing something else. What's interesting to me is the way the economy works - organic food was much more expensive 20 years ago, but it's about the same price or just a little more expensive now. You would think it would be less expensive, since there are fewer expensive agricultural chemicals used in growing it, but I suppose it spoils faster and there are greater losses to pests and the like.

[Versatile]

There are big commercial issues here....

 

If one considers food production globally

 

Naturally produced food is ok, with it's inherent hit-and-miss nature...crop failures etc

 

Hence the instigation of artificial agents...fertilisers, pesticides etc to make 'success' more likely

 

Including livestock manipulation, antibiotics, steroid growth promoters...generally nasty and ethically dubious

 

Feeding the world's desire for ever cheaper food in large quantities....

 

Then comes the 'organic' solution...at a price...sometimes with relaxed definitions for practical purposes

 

All very worthy and laudable

 

Some people are getting back into 'grow your own' to save on costs...

 

The big issue IMO is the obscene waste of food in the Western world whether organic or not

 

Partly brought on by the 'supermarket' ethos with it's overpackaged products and 'sell/use by' dates....

 

V

 

[TommyK]

Sure, I believe in organic foods. I am certain, beyond a shadow of a doubt, they exist. However, I think they are over priced.

 

So are brown eggs and fancy, name brand milk.

[djroge1]

I work part time in retail and we sell "organic sheets."

 

I only buy free range sheets.

[TommyK]

I see nothing wrong with organic foods. In order for an organic food to be legally called organic, the producer needs to jump through a number of hurdles and inspections to be able to sell his production, labeled as 'Organic'.

 

Quite honestly, farmers markets are probably the easiest place for a producer to get away with calling his produce 'organic' when it has not been certified as such. So, if you want to be certain your organic foods are in fact organic, buy it at the grocery store. There, you can be assured a traceable paper trail can be followed when the 'Organic Police' audit the food trail.

 

It is most important to wash all fresh, plant produce before you prepare it to eat. It is double important you wash organic plant produce due to the use of organic fertilizers, manure and such.

 

 

I get real skeptical about the safety and dietary claims of any food product I purchase when the claims are far fetched and down right untrue.

 

Claims of puss in milk and HFCS being labeled as a GMO, Genetically Modified Organism, are just plain wrong.

 

HFCS comes from a corn variety which naturally contains a higher percentage of sugar. Just as is high lysine corn, yellow dent corn, flint corn, and pop corn. Each is SELECTED for it's particular attribute. Most of these selections were made millenniums ago. Some of these varietal differences have been more recently discovered (last 100 years) and have been propagated for their desirable, naturally occurring attributes. Selection has nothing to do with genetic modification.

 

HFCS is no more or less bad for us than other types of sugar. The problem is we consume too much of it. It proliferates because it is easily derived for the natural corn it comes from than beet sugar or cane sugar. And is traded in the food industry as a liquid. As a liquid, it mixes better with food stuffs. Have you seen food items labeled, "Contains Natural Sugar!" Guess what folks? HFCS IS a natural sugar!

 

Puss in Milk? Pshaw! Milk is one of the most controlled, most inspected, most tested, most protected of foods we buy.

 

These claims I have heard elsewhere. Because of these claims and others like them, I am very skeptical about the positive attributes claimed by those extolling the virtues of organic foods.

[EVOL!]

 

Puss in Milk? Pshaw! Milk is one of the most controlled, most inspected, most tested, most protected of foods we buy.

 

 

Sorry if you don't believe that there is an increased amount of pus in the milk of cows treated with hormones that artificially increase their milk production.

 

In general too, those cows are also fed a steady does of antibiotics in their feed. I'd like to hear your justification for that.

 

Edit: Oops, it's spelled p-u-s, not p-u-s-s.

[Andy R]

Yes I believe they exist. Penn and Teller did a great segment on their HBO show BullScrit on the subject.

[milod]

Actually in ways even supermarket food is far better overall for us than what was available even a half century ago.

 

The "organic" fad fails to take into consideration a number of variables whether one is considering soils, area something is grown in and variety. Face it, even the soils ain't what they once were.

 

Those who get hung up on varieties should realize that even the wheat of 2,000 years ago was highly changed by farmers of the day from the original grasses from which it evolved. Ditto "corn" - maize in Europe - which is darned little like the original of three or four centuries ago.

 

There is one point on feed or seed corn varieties in that they're often not good to harvest as seed because they've been highly hybridized. Cattle today are far different from even my own youth and frankly I much prefer feedlot or ranch-fattened (which almost never happens) beef because it's much more similar to the beef I was raised on in the '50s. Grass-fed? What grass? What ecosystem? What breed? Butchered at what age? Etc.

 

The real bottom line on this is that we're not living in an idealized environment for raising food, and there are far more people around to eat various foods by far than when I was a kid. I do worry about a lotta produce on supermarket shelves and would in ways prefer a "farmers market" sort of situation rather than stuff in the supermarket. Overseas the "green revolution" has enabled us to feed our billions that with 1950s varieties, we couldn't now do.

 

But state and federal laws also enter into the game. E.g., we've several local meat processing plants that even have had beef documented from ranch birth and the mother's diet through the calf's diet and medical treatment to slaughter. The shops are state certified as is the beef documentation. Yet it can't be sold on the national marketplace. Bottom line is there wasn't enough sold to justify the premium and the idea has pretty much dropped dead.

 

Even buffalo you might buy at a big premium - buffalo from a local ranch always is sold in one of our local supermarkets - even isn't quite the same critter one might have cooked in the 1840s. There's actually less variation in the genetics. There's different diet, too, even on "the range" that's technically been untouched by a plow where most local buffalo are raised.

 

"Grass-fed" beef is about 80 percent baloney anyway. There ain't much grass in winter on the northern plains of Canada and the U.S. So they're eating hay. Corn also is a grass, btw. Even prairie hay ain't what it was a century ago. Alfalfa technically isn't a grass. The economics of ranching are so different today that loss of even a couple of animals on a 10-square-mile ranch make a significant difference in P&L, so yes, they're far better cared for than one might imagine. Antibiotics? Various inoculations? Not much diff from what humans get nowadays.

 

Also, consider it odd or not, but most farmers and ranchers I know get their food from the grocery store just like their town cousins. That wasn't necessarily the case 50 years ago, but this ain't 50 years ago. In fact, genetics are far better for a generalized beef product than you might imagine. And "finish," spelled "fat" on beef is part of how many sell their cattle on various "grids" as much as by weight. There's no local market for truck gardening that was a major percentage of local farming until WWII.

 

The last surviving local dairy here sells unpasteurized on the local market. They hadda change 'cuz they lost markets within 200 miles to plant consolidation by big corporations. Now they're looking at different breeds of cows and... etc. etc. I wish 'em luck, but I don't know if they can survive although there are some diehards who prefer unpasteurized and unhomogenized milk. Still, cows get sick just like people and caring farmers/ranchers get 'em meds just like parents get meds for themselves and their kids.

 

The whole food chain from farm/ranch to the store in my own lifetime has changed from where every little town had a creamery, slaughterhouse and chicken/egg plant to some pretty large corporate operations. Figure this, there are functionally fewer than a half dozen meat processing firms working to get you cheaper beef and yet... if they put farmers and ranchers outa business one way or another, they don't care. But buying "organic" ain't gonna change much, either, except as a niche market among believers.

 

Big companies provide incredibly safe foods today at incredibly low prices. The problem is that to do so, they have permanently altered the marketplace. That's the price of our overpopulation, even in most of North America.

 

m

[Sinner 13]

On a slightly off topic, but humors note:

My favorites are the customers that MUST have a 100 percent Organic, and fair-trade products, and praise the virtues of said life style to all that will listen,

Then drive home with their purchases in a Gas guzzling SUV.

 

I call them Unicorns.

[Versatile]

On a slightly off topic, but humors note:

My favorites are the customers that MUST have a 100 percent Organic, and fair-trade products, and praise the virtues of said life style to all that will listen,

Then drive home with their purchases in a Gas guzzling SUV.

 

I call them Unicorns.

 

Very amusing...

 

Similar to our own 'Champagne Socialists'

 

V

 

[Searcy]

The "Blood and Puss in cows milk" is a myth that is largley perpetuated by those pushing the organic food marketing fad and PeTA. My favorite is the one where they that the worst batches of bloody puss filled milk are made into chocolate milk to hide the taste and color. Too funny.

[Unionman]

Now when i say believe i don't mean that organic foods don't exist, but do you truly believe that when you buy an organic food product that it is really organic? Ive always noticed that prices of organic products from non organic products have quite a big price difference and is it even worth it in the long run?

 

The reason i'm asking this is because my dad is completely against it and I'm interested in other peoples views on it.

 

 

Dont turn political to.

 

 

Pesticides are toxic. I am not sure how long after switching to organic growing methods a farm can claim to be organic though; how long the toxins stay in the soil, etc.

[Jeff-7]

Pesticides are toxic. I am not sure how long after switching to organic growing methods a farm can claim to be organic though; how long the toxins stay in the soil, etc.

Then the organic/natural pesticides with their own toxins leach into the soil as well. You're simply trading one for the other. Personally I couldn't afford to buy organic here in Kansas even if I wanted to, $2.99 for a pound of strawberries vs. $8.99 for a pound of organic ones? Not going to happen on my wages. Milod makes a ton of great points on the subject so I really don't need to elaborate any further. Do be a little wary on some of these "farmer's markets" - we've had some people here in Kansas simply stopping at the warehouses on their way into the city, pick up the same produce you're going to find in the grocery store, and setting up shop to sell them to you at market for a much higher margin.

 

On a side note I do love garden fresh produce from my own garden, I think the work and waiting adds a lot to how much you appreciate the food - and it's picked truly at it's ripest. Some produce is picked very green in order to make the travel from the farm, to a slew of distributors and finally into your market. Tomatoes especially. Nothing like a garden grown tomato going straight from the vine to your plate.

[milod]

Jeff-7 made an excellent point about tomatoes and other produce that are varieties and harvest scheduled to "keep" during their travels to the store.

 

A young lady friend of mine brought up under some atypical U.S. circumstances couldn't understand why all her school friends despised tomatoes until she tasted one from the store instead of from the garden in season. I wonder how any here realize how many "plants" can be purchased as seeds that have varying qualities including how long an anticipated growing season before harvest?

 

All kidding aside, I think the only way to get super-quality foods at a relatively economical price point is to drop the world's population by somewhere around 66 to 75 percent and maintain it there. At that point hydroponics and large greenhouses could supplement outdoors gardening that already varies widely in species and variety because of climate. It also might again encourage development of foodstuff varieties for their taste and nutrition rather than a main focus on quantity and holding qualities between harvest and the sales floor which lessens uneconomical waste.

 

And that's largely a "developed region" solution. The lesser-developed nations have another problem in feeding their own populations that at this point have outstripped local ability to feed them.

 

Don't get me wrong: A true "farmer's market" can be kinda fun and it can offer a bit of extra income to some small farmers or small to mid-scale gardeners. But you have no clue if you've not worked a larger-scale truck garden over a number of years to see the labor-intensity even with careful seed selection, crop rotation, fertilizer of some sort (most functionally replaces nutrients present in many types of "natural" soils), and some way to keep bugs and other pests away...

 

Yes, some varieties are "pest resistant" to a degree. But then one has to wonder what else is going on in that variety.

 

Then there are marketing issues if one wishes to make a living from such labors. And not just making a living, but making it businesslike in a world that is not gentle to those who suffer a crop failure brought by flooding, hail, unexpected pests like grasshoppers or other insects and fungi, etc., etc.

 

"Ethical produce?" Yeah, we could do it with a much smaller population and a suburbia with "spaceship" homes that include greenhouses and/or hydroponics. But what of those growing masses of human beings who lack that economic ability? What of the fact it appears "we" all are headed increasingly toward a similar lack of economic ability for such dreams?

 

Hmmmm. Another question here: How many "organic" farmers can declare there is less potentially lethal fungi infused quite naturally into their crops by nature than those using various "chemicals" to counter such stuff?

 

Ah, but if only life were simpler, eh?

 

m

[Searcy]

There was a Swiss study published in 2005 by doctor Jurg Blum that concluded that organic milk is more expensive than the non-organic variety, but that it also contains "more disease-causing bacteria."

 

Data from the study indicates that organically raised cows produce up to 12 per cent less milk than cows treated with antibiotics. Non-traditional supplements prohibited by organic rules turn cows into less efficient agricultural units. Also, organically raised cows are less healthy and suffer from increased cases of udder inflammation and mastitis. The result is that milk from organically raised cows contains enormous amounts of bacteria. One major concern of the scientists: "A risk for consumers is that these germs can end up in the milk we drink."

 

Swiss scientists compared the "health, nutrition and milk yield of 3,000 cows from 270 organic and conventional herds."

 

Their final conclusion:

 

"Organic milk was not any better than conventionally produced milk."

 

In fact, it might be worse for you.

[dem00n]

So if i buy oragnic milk...i have to buy a honda?

Screw it, i'm buying a bottle of coke and a Cuda'!

[FirstMeasure]

It rough being an Animal, isn't it. Eating body parts of other animals, drinking the pus filled liquids meant for their young, killing the other organisms that want to eat the fruits and vegetables that grow in the poop of herbivorous without killing ourselves. Being an Earthbound Organism is no walk in the park.