quapman Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Hell ya,, autotune??? really??? look up autotune in the dictionary and it says. Device to adjust talent to match pretty face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Over-produced? I'd say yes generally. But this really applies to mainstream music. Get off the radio dial (the first step to finding good music anyway IMO) and you will find there are a number of bands making great recordings outside the realm of the major labels. That is a benefit of the recording technology we have evolved. Another thought... producing is not just technology. In a lot of ways it is about who has control. Case in point.... some guys I knew got signed and packed it off to Nashville. First day in the studio they are introduced to their "coaches"... the musicians whose job it is to help them play their parts better (parts the band members had written themselves and had been playing live for years mind you). The "coaches" were also enlisted to step in and play the parts themselves if the band couldn't get it right (meaning the way the production team wanted). Welcome to the music biz, baby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Over-produced? I'd say yes generally. But this really applies to mainstream music. Get off the radio dial (the first step to finding good music anyway IMO) and you will find there are a number of bands making great recordings outside the realm of the major labels. That is a benefit of the recording technology we have evolved. Another thought... producing is not just technology. In a lot of ways it is about who has control. Case in point.... some guys I knew got signed and packed it off to Nashville. First day in the studio they are introduced to their "coaches"... the musicians whose job it is to help them play their parts better (parts the band members had written themselves and had been playing live for years mind you). The "coaches" were also enlisted to step in and play the parts themselves if the band couldn't get it right (meaning the way the production team wanted). Welcome to the music biz, baby! Which is exactly what's wrong with "the Music business!" Too much "business, too little good/great music! IMHO, as always! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 I agree. When I heard the first two new Rush singles I at least thought that Geddy was going to go more raw on the album. He used Orange amps, which sound great. Listen to bass at 3:22, 4:12 and 5:28 when Caravan was first released. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if-WrgfGxeI Now listen to the bass in the album version. A flanger was added and the bass is more compressed. It softened out a great in-your-face tune. I like the raw sound much better. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO0ikbGvIY0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Here is an interesting database about dynamic range, search by album or artist. For example, I am a big fan of Metallica's Death Magnetic album, one of my favorites but...the audio is pretty much ruined by volume, compression and clipping, a real shame. Look it up and see how it has one of the worst ratings. Which is very disappointing because Rick Rubin can do better. Now look at Slayer's Reign in Blood and South of Heaven,(original releases) incredible dynamic range and both albums also produced by Rubin but, 20 years before. The thing to note is that the very same records show a decrease in dynamic range after they were reissued by a different label. http://dr.loudness-war.info/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Over production in music? Ya think? Is it any different then any other form of entertainment? I don't think so, movies and TV shows are just as bad, (look out folks I feel a rant coming on.) I can not think of one thing that isn't over hyped or over produced. Blame it on us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 It's may be a generational thing, but I like to be able to hear and understand the words being sung. Much of that virtue is lacking in current day music. It's not just rock. It's everything. Country, in particular really sucks. You've got all the macho, wannabe cowboys straining to hit notes they will never hit, so instead they layer the voice with harmonies. What I end-up hearing is a conglomeration of noise. Then on top of that you've got many of these country guys trying to sound more country that the next guy. The exaggerate their country drawls and they sound like they're illiterate. Anyway, sad times in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Over production in music? Ya think? Is it any different then any other form of entertainment? I don't think so, movies and TV shows are just as bad, (look out folks I feel a rant coming on.) I can not think of one thing that isn't over hyped or over produced. Blame it on us! Exactly why I don't watch TV, per se, or go to many movies, anymore. I used to be a real "movie buff," but...not anymore! Too much "Crap," at WAY too high ticket prices. I honestly don't know how the "average" family (whatever "average" is, anymore) can afford to go to the movies, like our families used to do (back when they were carved in stone, in front of you...LOL)! Seriously though, prices are ridiculous, unless you can manage to go to a "sundowner special" or early matinee. And, even they "ain't cheap!" Never mind the "concessions!" So, Rant Away, Jaxson! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PingPongBob Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 I try my best not to buy anything digitally remastered. Lordy, how I miss Tom Dowd. Music wasn't meant to be perfect. I'll take hand built music. You can stuff the computer/digital things as far as I'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanHenry Posted May 9, 2013 Author Share Posted May 9, 2013 Maybe I was wrong when I said in my original post "modern music", because I recently purchased the re-released Fleetwood Mac Rumours album on CD (to lazy to get out my old vinyl copy). This new version comes on three CD's, the original album, live and a CD of demo's etc from the studio sessions. The demo version of the songs sounds fantastic it's pure and un molested. There are some tracks for example, where it's just Lindsey Buckingham's guitar and Stevie Nicks singing and the sound is unbelievably better than the finished album. Stevie's voice shows qualities that I've never heard before, and the whole thing just sounds "fresh". I don't feel there is any need for all this "levelling out" of the sound, to my ears it just detracts from the quality of the performers. Personal opinion, of course! Regards, Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Rocker 59 Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 IMO, Pro Tools and autotunes did a lot to kill the classic sounds of the recordings that us oldtimers are used to. If it was up to me , all music would be recorded on analog instead of digital . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valeriy Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Hey guys, do not rush to conclusions. I think it's not worth much upset because of the nowaday music and its sound. All its flaws are temporary, in my opinion. Computer (digital) technology develops so quickly that people do not have time to understand it thoroughly. I.e. one can hope that people do not throw away old knowledge forever, but they are under study rapidly evolving computer innovations. And even professional mastering engineers may not know some useful tricks in modern DAWs for mastering, for example, how to increase the volume correctly, herewith, to avoid excessive compression. I already explained this in one thread how to make this by the DAW Adobe Audition (in my last posts of http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/83105-analog-vs-digital/ ). And many of the studio engineers do not really know these tricks and in the pursuit of the commercial volume they make a terrible and unnecessary compression, and who knows - keeps this as a secret, usually. By the way, if who is interested, here, by means of the said trick in Adobe Audition I designedly made an increased volume up to the modern commercial for some things of my music collection (the known in 90s, of Adamsky), although they are in mp3 format here : And compare the same things on YouTube (by the way, the 3rd thing is a cover of the Doors' thing): i.e., concerning the sound, mine even in mp3 are clearly better :) , or who do not want to listen all the three things then the intros in the second thing are clearly different. Although, a primary source was a cassette tape recorder, further, my computer with Sound Blaster audio card in digitizing audio. And by the way, Jonnyg from that thread after that send to me a link with free DAW Adobe Audition :) : http://www.adobe.com/downloads/cs2_downloads/index.html here, though, the version 3, I used the version 1.5, but I think in this version that function must be too, and it is very needed in mastering your things for the correct increasing volume to avoid any unnecessary intermediate compression . Thus, in the "digit" just need to know how to work correctly, even such an operation as resampling is done correctly only in some DAWs, for example, it can't be done well in the Sound Forge, only in the Adobe again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturn Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 A lot of good, informative responses regarding the aspects of modern recording and production. I'm not too knowledgeable about technical studio recording. But I can definitely hear a difference between todays songs and the "classic" songs of say the 1970s. Most of it seems kind of cookie cutter production today. One exception in the last decade IMO, is Green Day American Idiot. Regardless of what you think of them as musicians or their songs, that album to my ears was a kind of throwback in terms of production. You had all kinds of layered instruments, not just guitars, background vocals and harmonies, chimes and bells and other organic sounding effects. And it is all blended perfectly together to make each individual song it's own masterpiece. I just don't hear songs and albums produced that way much these days. A great example IMO of an older classic that really shows how they took their time in the studio to create back then the perfect rock song, is "Magic Man" by Heart. That song is such a perfect studio production, again IMO. It's got lead vocals and background vocals, multiple electric and acoustic guitars, synthesizer, etc. Every bass line and drum beat is perfect and in the right spot. It moves through different musical sections and has that moody middle section then the climax into the ending. That's just one example but I could think of lots more from that time period. You just don't hear many artists taking their time to create a masterpiece like that anymore or especially an entire album where each song gets it's own unique treatment. Some of it lies in the fact that too many people today, and not just young people, don't have the patience to listen through a fully developed song or album any more. So why should the label spend big money to produce a great studio piece that hardly anyone will listen all the way through, before skipping to the next song? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valeriy Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 ... That's just one example but I could think of lots more from that time period. You just don't hear many artists taking their time to create a masterpiece like that anymore or especially an entire album where each song gets it's own unique treatment. Some of it lies in the fact that too many people today, and not just young people, don't have the patience to listen through a fully developed song or album any more. So why should the label spend big money to produce a great studio piece that hardly anyone will listen all the way through, before skipping to the next song? The manner of these years not to listen “a fully developed song or album any more”, most likely, I think,one of the reasons, this is due to a lot of mediocre musical things, songs that appeared in these years especially as regards the sound so-so, i.e. when there was a change in recording technology, transition period. Herewith, studying these new technologies was accompanied by a lot of trials and errors in record, i.e., in the final music product. As a result, there appeared a lot of things with mediocre quality in the sound, in turn, this fact have killed the desire to listen a song to its end. And just, I gave the said examples of the current music where, indeed, I can listen to the end only my variants, a bit remade for myself :) (not from YouTube). I.e. these habits not to listen to the end, I think, are because of temporary failures and mistakes in the course of new technologies of record and mastering and these habits must be temporary too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 The LP was revolutionary. That's funny right there........ P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Pippy... Funny how? It changed the whole way and dynamic available in recorded music. The 78 rpm record - that I'm old enough to remember, darn it - and even the 45 rpm "single" simply couldn't manage the sound spectrum regardless of quality of the amplification. The 33 1/3 rpm bit we now call a vinyl enabled the sound spectrum to be pretty well reproduced in our hearing range and technology allowed also stereo music recording that tended to be overdone initially as well as more messing with the sound. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHO Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Pippy... Funny how? I'm guessing he means that the LP spins around... revolutionary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Apologies Milod; I thought it was simply one more of your wordplays, as, indeed, SHO spotted. The text was, as always, erudite, enjoyable and spot-on. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resigned Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Is Modern Music over Produced? YES. Live music is best! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lu Ruello Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Hello Ian! If I was 1/100th as good as - let's say - Warren Haynes, I wouldn't need all these effects I am using. That's the case with "over-produced" contemporary music too, I guess. Cheers... Bence I love Warren Haynes as a singer and guitar player but have you ever seen his stage rig setup? It ain't just a LP into a marshall that's for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanHenry Posted May 10, 2013 Author Share Posted May 10, 2013 I love Warren Haynes as a singer and guitar player but have you ever seen his stage rig setup? It ain't just a LP into a marshall that's for sure! Warren can do OK without any effects: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGrxWsvmk24&list=PLdkz3OShelnW2AAyNAJ85jNeaue9JqsAQ& feature=youtu.be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 I love Warren Haynes as a singer and guitar player but have you ever seen his stage rig setup? It ain't just a LP into a marshall that's for sure! Hello Lu! I guess, You know what I meant. If You like, substitute Mr. Haynes with any other great player. Roy Buchanan for example. He only used delay as an outboard effect. Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valeriy Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 By the way, here is a useful and convenient list of the DAWs in SRC (sample rate conversion) comparison : http://src.infinitewave.ca/ If to compare a Sound Forge and any Adobe Audition, then a “background” (i.e. the trash) after conversion by Sound Forge is a horror, although the Audition is not the most ideal, but quite good for the sound. It can be useful even for a record demo. I even know there was a case in a studio that made a master record for a clip (with video format 48 KHz) and after that it was made sample rate conversion from 48 to 44.1 KHZ additionally for the CD format (by the DAW Sound Forge) and here, the sound of the CD became spoiled. But this was only noticed when the CD edition has already been released, they noticed this with comparison of DVD and CD. And the CD master should be remade, i.e. just that conversion was made by other DAW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaysEpiphone Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Ive often wondered about this as there are always advances with gear there will always be need of use of this new gear and the creative use of it. I have no argument with not using to much of the "that sound suck's" knob in a recording but I also think about the use of the phrase "over produced"... The Producer in a project has little to do with the production. While he has a lot of say in it his not typically the one operating the machinery and frantically tinkering with things to get a "sound". Again, this may not always be the case as many Producer's have taken this role but not typically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 I might venture to mention the example of The Beatles... Who were so brilliant and tight they sounded exactly the same live or on vinyl LP... Not even close....... IMO they were pretty bad live, to the point they stopped playing live because they couldn't reproduce what they were doing on their albums. The only bands IMO that sound great live are country bands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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