rct Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Hahaha! I've never heard "Bali Hai" until just now.... That one's a bit of a stretch. I mean, if you really wanted to, you could find similarities in like every song. Here's one that I've always heard—as clear as day—yet nobody ever said a single thing about it: Begin at 00:40: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDKuGnhxcpA Begin at 00:16: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m0mPdZhqgY Nope. Keep On Growing one of my favorite Whitlock songs ever. I remember Athena well, never hooked them up even remotely. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darling67 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Nope. Keep On Growing one of my favorite Whitlock songs ever. I remember Athena well, never hooked them up even remotely. rct I connect melodies... if I hear a similar melody, then a likeness is there. A friend of mine at work, with a similar keen sense of melody, heard me humming "Keep On Growing", and she asked, "Are you humming, 'Athena'?". So there you go. Anyway, my point is that many songs sound alike at one point or another. This "Taurus" thing is nonsense. If Page and Plant are found to owe the estate of Randy California, then that should mean open season on EVERY song recorded. Here are some more—but in this instance, it's a chord progression/theme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7Uh8933Jvs Forward to 00:17... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKITpZRDEW4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darling67 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 ... and forward to 01:18... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLMF5GM0Kt8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 I connect melodies... if I hear a similar melody, then a likeness is there. A friend of mine at work, with a similar keen sense of melody, heard me humming "Keep On Growing", and she asked, "Are you humming, 'Athena'?". So there you go. Ok, well I've never connected them. And no offense to you or your friend, but confusing two hummed melodies is hardly a case for infringement! Anyway, my point is that many songs sound alike at one point or another. This "Taurus" thing is nonsense. If Page and Plant are found to owe the estate of Randy California, then that should mean open season on EVERY song recorded. No, it won't mean that. Infringements have always existed and they always will. I doubt Randy will prevail, but it isn't like he didn't try in his life and that some greedy brother in law is running with it. He did try, all of his life. It seems people seem to think that if two songs sound vaguely alike that the lawyers will be out in droves. They won't. You need credible reasons to bother taking someone to court, not "it sounds like mine". You need the concept of one confused for another with in two measures of moderate 4/4. You need documentation of writing sessions where it could have been lifted, if that is your angle. You need copyright, you need documentation of the copyright, and you need some belief by some competent legal people that you could, maybe, prevail. Otherwise they don't have the time of day for you, this isn't cheap and it isn't easy. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted June 21, 2016 Author Share Posted June 21, 2016 Heres the latest.. looks like Zep will win and I hope so..... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-36584386 Lawyers for Led Zeppelin have asked a judge to throw out a case accusing the band of stealing the riff for Stairway to Heaven. Singer Robert Plant, guitarist Jimmy Page and Warner Music argue that the claimants have failed to make their case after three days of testimony. US District Judge R Gary Klausner is expected to hear arguments on the motion when the trial resumes later. The band are accused of basing Stairway on the 1968 Spirit song, Taurus. The case was brought by Michael Skidmore, who runs the estate of Spirit's late guitarist, Randy Wolfe. In court, Skidmore's lawyer, Francis Malofiy played both songs and attempted to establish that Page heard the song prior to writing Stairway to Heaven. The guitarist testified that he had not heard the Spirit track until a few years ago, and said the chord sequence was also similar to the Mary Poppins song Chim Chim Cher-ee. However, musicologist Dr Alexander Stewart told the court that the chord progressions in Taurus and Stairway "both skip the E before resolving on an A note in an unusual way". The claimants rested their case on Friday, and lawyers for Led Zeppelin filed to have the case dismissed on Monday. The defendants argue that Malofiy failed to put the copyright registration of Taurus into evidence; that the Wolfe Trustee does not own that copyright; and that he failed to establish that Led Zeppelin had heard Taurus before writing Stairway to Heaven. If the judge rules against the motion, the defence will start their case on Tuesday, with Robert Plant and bassist John Paul Jones expected to testify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 At least Jonesy can claim he was 'just out parking the car' when it happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zentar Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Zep pretty much copied all their songs. Page's guitar made them great. I wouldn't be surprised to see several more suits. Even before the suing started years ago I saw that they did other people's music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 All I can visualize now is Richard Van Dyke singing Stairway joined by Julie Andrews in the chorus. (won't let me put his real first name) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retired Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 1466374132[/url]' post='1778903']Hahaha! I've never heard "Bali Hai" until just now.... That one's a bit of a stretch. I mean, if you really wanted to, you could find similarities in like every song. Here's one that I've always heard—as clear as day—yet nobody ever said a single thing about it: Begin at 00:40: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDKuGnhxcpA Begin at 00:16: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m0mPdZhqgY Until now, I've never heard of Spirit or any of their songs. Listened to Taurus for the first time. There is a definite resemblance in the opening. Part of me wonders why they took all this time to file a lawsuit? Most likely because Led Zeph. Made millions and they didn't. Sounds like a jealously case to me. Ha, like my wife always says. "Build a bridge and get over it." Hey...there's a song title for someone you can use. I'd like her to listen to that song. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Part of me wonders why they took all this time to file a lawsuit? Check back in the thread. Its there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Verdict: Not stolen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingarmadillo Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Verdict: Not stolen. Yep, it took the jury about 5 hours: http://abcnews.go.co...airway-40063881 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted June 23, 2016 Author Share Posted June 23, 2016 haha I like this line... very much a sign of the times... Page and singer Robert Plant showed little emotion as the verdict was read then hugged their lawyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heymisterk Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Jury ruled in favor of Led Zeppelin. I don't buy the whole "Zep borrowed material and made it great" argument: They did that too often, and too often they didn't give credit where it was due. They often did the equivalent of looking at the exam of the person sitting next to them, then got a good grade and took credit for their musical brilliance. Can anyone really argue that the opening riff isn't ripped off from "Taurus" if they put their love of LZ aside? It's essentially the same: same key, same pause, same tonal resolution. All Page did was add in a couple of notes and claimed it was His. As a LZ fanatic, when this news broke, I went through the Stage of Grief, and have finally come to Acceptance. But my admiration and adulation for Page as an artist has been tarnished. If I were Jake Holmes, I would have brought suit against Page a long time ago: For Page to have claimed he "wrote" "Dazed and Confused" the song is egregious. I understand that being anti-Zeppelin is not popular on this website, but I believe that what is popular and what is just aren't always the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versatile Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Assuming this case is now done up and dusted... How much has it all cost and who will pay...? V...just wondering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 ...Can anyone really argue that the opening riff isn't ripped off from "Taurus"...? No, not even in the courtroom - but that doesn't mean Page/Plant ripped-off 'Taurus' any more than it means Randy California had already ripped-off someone else. Read the court's findings; "Experts for both sides dissected both compositions, agreeing mainly that they shared a descending chord progression that dates back three centuries as a building block in lots of songs." Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted June 23, 2016 Author Share Posted June 23, 2016 No, not even in the courtroom - but that doesn't mean Page/Plant ripped-off 'Taurus' any more than it means Randy California had already ripped-off someone else. Read the court's findings; "Experts for both sides dissected both compositions, agreeing mainly that they shared a descending chord progression that dates back three centuries as a building block in lots of songs." Pip. Apparently including the song Chim Chim Cher-ee Cor blimey guvnorr...... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karloff Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I'm a fan of Zep & of Spirit. And even though there's similarities between the 2 tunes, I don't feel there was enough there to hold Page & Plant to the fire on this one. But they have blatantly ripped off other songs in the past, and just noted it as 'Traditional, arranged by Page" ... or whatever, and take all the royalties, when it should have gone to Chester Burnett, Willie Dixon or McKinley Morganfield. yes, theres only so many notes and chord variations, and especially within the blues format many songs share the same lick or the basic 1,4,5 progression. But they would take a song use the same riff & chords, damn near the same words and call it their own. they wound up having to pay out to the estate of Howlin Wolf, and Willie Dixon I believe, as well as others. all that being said, I think the jury got it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karloff Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 now I just heard on the news that the jury was not allowed to even listen to the recording of Taurus. WTF ? I don't get it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I'm a fan of Zep & of Spirit. And even though there's similarities between the 2 tunes, I don't feel there was enough there to hold Page & Plant to the fire on this one. But they have blatantly ripped off other songs in the past, and just noted it as 'Traditional, arranged by Page" ... or whatever, and take all the royalties, when it should have gone to Chester Burnett, Willie Dixon or McKinley Morganfield. If you check out those 3, and in PARTICULAR Muddy Waters (that's Morganfield), they certainly didn't write the stuff that is called "traditional" here. They wrote great songs, and were MASTERS of Blues, but the riffs and chord progressions were already in use BIG TIME by the time they came around. That's where the term "traditional" comes from, as it can't really be credited to anyone, or rather, is actually traditional in the sense it belongs to a type or style of music. To drive the point further, the EARLIEST recordings that we can find have these same progressions and many have the same riffs. Way, way, WAY before Howlin' Wolf, Willie Dixon and Muddy Waters wrote their great classics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karloff Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 If you check out those 3, and in PARTICULAR Muddy Waters (that's Morganfield), they certainly didn't write the stuff that is called "traditional" here. They wrote great songs, and were MASTERS of Blues, but the riffs and chord progressions were already in use BIG TIME by the time they came around. That's where the term "traditional" comes from, as it can't really be credited to anyone, or rather, is actually traditional in the sense it belongs to a type or style of music. To drive the point further, the EARLIEST recordings that we can find have these same progressions and many have the same riffs. Way, way, WAY before Howlin' Wolf, Willie Dixon and Muddy Waters wrote their great classics. I know who Morgenfield is, the fact is they copied more than a few songs and made some changes and put their names on it. Zep's "How many more times" versus Howlin' Wolf's (Chester Burnett) "How many more years". same riff, almost identical lyrics, couple changes and they put their names on it. I'm not crucifying them, I love Zep. but they ripped a few people off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 I love Zep. but they ripped a few people off. That covers it for me too. They shouldn't have, but they did. I don't love those records any less because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 ...and I don't think any of those artists did any worse in their careers though an association to Led Zeppelin. I think the zeal to claim authorship, and the resistance to credit others where the opportunity (need?) to do so is obvious - less so in my opinion for this song than a few others, reveals more about the character of the defendant rather than a reflection on the (generally terrific) music that resulted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 I know who Morgenfield is, I wrote that for others who might read, I know darned well YOU know who he is. Hope I didn't come off as sounding like you didn't know who or what you were talking about, or even that I know more than you (as if it might matter). It's obvious if you know those names, you know of what you speakith. And what thou riffith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karloff Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 I wrote that for others who might read, I know darned well YOU know who he is. Hope I didn't come off as sounding like you didn't know who or what you were talking about, or even that I know more than you (as if it might matter). It's obvious if you know those names, you know of what you speakith. And what thou riffith. lol, and I apologize if my response came across in a certain manner . thats the disadvantage of just typing/messaging. you can't hear the inflection intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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