Thoughts on this SJ-200?

[Jinder]

Take the 20% discount (which must add up to quite a bit on an SJ200!) and play the thing would be my approach. Sooner or later you’ll ding up a guitar anyway, so why not take a juicy discount and get a guitar that’s pre-dinged, so you don’t have the hassle and heartache of that first injury?

Enjoy it! As I was told when I bought my first SJ200 many years ago, you may WANT other acoustics in the future, but you’ll never NEED another one once you have an SJ200 🙂

[RBSinTo]

As a sidebar to this conversation, do many people keep a Snark-style clip-on tuner on their guitar all the time? This would explain the marring of the finish, but not the reason for the habit.

My tuner is kept clipped to a music stand and only attached long enough to tune up. Even had I never heard of the finish problem, for me there wouldn't be a need to keep a tuner permanently attached.

I understand that for people playing professionally, this could be necessary, but for the amateur, not at all.

RBSinTo

[Brucebubs]

2 minutes ago, RBSinTo said:

As a sidebar to this conversation, do many people keep a Snark-style clip-on tuner on their guitar all the time? This would explain the marring of the finish, but not the reason for the habit.

My tuner is kept clipped to a music stand and only attached long enough to tune up. Even had I never heard of the finish problem, for me there wouldn't be a need to keep a tuner permanently attached.

I understand that for people playing professionally, this could be necessary, but for the amateur, not at all.

RBSinTo

I'm so paranoid I clip mine on the buttons of the keystone tuners - I clip it on 4D first then I move it to 6E.

[Sgt. Pepper]

14 minutes ago, RBSinTo said:

As a sidebar to this conversation, do many people keep a Snark-style clip-on tuner on their guitar all the time? This would explain the marring of the finish, but not the reason for the habit.

My tuner is kept clipped to a music stand and only attached long enough to tune up. Even had I never heard of the finish problem, for me there wouldn't be a need to keep a tuner permanently attached.

I understand that for people playing professionally, this could be necessary, but for the amateur, not at all.

RBSinTo

I used to keep Snarks on my Gibson's for days. Never had an issue. My buddy left one on his SG for 15 minuets and it made a mark. Nitro is finicky stuff.

[golfski]

Ok, one more thing I found on the guitar.  I have been looking online and there seems to some precedence for this - I took guitar to luthier (at GC) and they said it looks great and did a string change and setup and its playing nice.  

As seen in this post below, I have a similar yet much smaller thing going on.  I noticed I could slide a corner of a paper under one of the mustache ends ever so slightly, I posted my image here - https://ibb.co/DWJtmYJ.  It’s about half the amount of that other poster.  I can’t imagine the curls of the mustache actually provide any stability?  The core of the bridge seems very very very stable and not bulging or anything - humidity is right around 41/42*.

 

Would this change anyone’s  opinion?  It seems like something that would be covered by warranty if needed to be fixed.   These are just hard to find and I am really enjoying this one!  I don’t want overlook anything serious but also have oddly been at ease with the cosmetic stuff as I know what I will do to it. 

 

[kidblast]

6 hours ago, golfski said:

Ok, one more thing I found on the guitar.  I have been looking online and there seems to some precedence for this - I took guitar to luthier (at GC) and they said it looks great and did a string change and setup and its playing nice.  

As seen in this post below, I have a similar yet much smaller thing going on.  I noticed I could slide a corner of a paper under one of the mustache ends ever so slightly, I posted my image here - https://ibb.co/DWJtmYJ.  It’s about half the amount of that other poster.  I can’t imagine the curls of the mustache actually provide any stability?  The core of the bridge seems very very very stable and not bulging or anything - humidity is right around 41/42*.

 

Would this change anyone’s  opinion?  It seems like something that would be covered by warranty if needed to be fixed.   These are just hard to find and I am really enjoying this one!  I don’t want overlook anything serious but also have oddly been at ease with the cosmetic stuff as I know what I will do to it. 

 

Hard to say,  sometimes the edge you're finding some room under just may have always been that way.   You'll want to keep an eye on it, check it like every 6 months or something like that.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

9 hours ago, golfski said:

Ok, one more thing I found on the guitar.  I have been looking online and there seems to some precedence for this - I took guitar to luthier (at GC) and they said it looks great and did a string change and setup and its playing nice.  

As seen in this post below, I have a similar yet much smaller thing going on.  I noticed I could slide a corner of a paper under one of the mustache ends ever so slightly, I posted my image here - https://ibb.co/DWJtmYJ.  It’s about half the amount of that other poster.  I can’t imagine the curls of the mustache actually provide any stability?  The core of the bridge seems very very very stable and not bulging or anything - humidity is right around 41/42*.

 

Would this change anyone’s  opinion?  It seems like something that would be covered by warranty if needed to be fixed.   These are just hard to find and I am really enjoying this one!  I don’t want overlook anything serious but also have oddly been at ease with the cosmetic stuff as I know what I will do to it. 

 

Since as of right now even though its a 2019, you are the original owner, and it should be under warranty. I would contact Gibson and if it is a warranty item have them fix it. I had a Martin D-28 and Martin J12-16GT both had the back of the bridge lift (the 28 was worse then the 12'er). Both were bought new and a qualified Martin repair tech in Richmond, VA did the work. All it cost me was the gas back and forth form Newport News to Richmond to have the repair done. 

Here is there warranty info right off their site (it may also be in the booklet and stuff you get with a new guitar, been a while since I had a new Gibson):

Gibson USA and Custom Warranty

Your new Gibson instrument is warranted to be free from defects in materials and workmanship for the life of the original retail purchaser, subject to the limitations contained in this warranty.

If at any time this Gibson instrument malfunctions as a result of faulty materials or workmanship, Gibson will repair the defect(s) or replace the instrument, as it deems appropriate in its sole discretion. Gibson reserves the right to use materials regularly utilized at the time of repair in the event that original materials are no longer available. If replacement of your instrument is deemed appropriate by our staff, Gibson will replace the instrument with one of the same or most similar style of a value not in excess of the original purchase price of your instrument.

This warranty covers the cost of both labor and materials on any repair deemed necessary by our Customer Service Representative for the lifetime of the original purchaser. In the unlikely event that your instrument is destroyed, lost or damaged beyond repair, while in the possession of Gibson for repair,Gibson will replace that instrument with one of the same or most similar style of a value not in excess of the original purchase price of your instrument. Any insurance covering the instrument, including but not limited to collector's value insurance, must be carried by owner at owner's expense.

THIS WARRANTY IS EXTENDED TO THE ORIGINAL RETAIL PURCHASER ONLY AND MAY NOT BE TRANSFERRED OR ASSIGNED TO SUBSEQUENT OWNERS. IN ORDER TO VALIDATE YOUR WARRANTY, AND AS A CONDITION PRECEDENT TO WARRANTY COVERAGE HEREUNDER, YOU MUST RETURN YOUR WARRANTY REGISTRATION CARD WITHIN FIFTEEN (15) DAYS FOLLOWING THE ORIGINAL DATE OF PURCHASE. YOUR PROOF OF PURCHASE OR SALES RECEIPT MUST ACCOMPANY ALL REQUESTS FOR WARRANTY COVERAGE.

This Warranty Is Subject To The Following Limitations

THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER:

1. Any instrument that has been altered or modified in any way or upon which the serial number has been tampered with or altered.
2. Any instrument whose warranty card has been altered or upon which false information has been given.
3. Any instrument that has been damaged due to misuse, negligence, accident, or improper operation.
4. The subjective issue of tonal characteristics.
5. Shipping damages of any kind.
6. Any instrument that has been subjected to extremes of humidity or temperature
7. Normal wear and tear (i.e., worn frets, worn machine heads, worn plating, string replacement, scratched pickguards, or damages to or discoloration of the instrument finish for any reason).
8. Any instrument that has been purchased from an unauthorized dealer, or upon which unauthorized repair or service has been performed.
9. Any factory installed electronics after a period of one (I) year following the original date of purchase.
10. Cracking, discoloration or damage of any sort to the finish or plating for any reason.
11. Gibson does not warranty the playability of a instrument whose "action" is lower than the standard "action" as defined in the owners manual.

GIBSON MAKES NO OTHER EXPRESS WARRANTY OF ANY KIND WHATSOEVER. ALL IMPLIED, WARRANTIES, INCLUDING WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, EXCEEDING THE SPECIFIC PROVISIONS OF THIS WARRANTY ARE HEREBY DISCLAIMED AND EXCLUDED FROM THIS WARRANTY. SOME STATES AND/OR COUNTRIES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF IMPLIED WARRANTIES SO THAT THE ABOVE MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.

GIBSON SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INDIRECT CONSEQUENTIAL, INCIDENTAL OR OTHER SIMILAR DAMAGES SUFFERED BY THE PURCHASER OR ANY THIRD PARTY, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION. DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS OR BUSINESS OR DAMAGES RESULTING FROM USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THE INSTRUMENT, WHETHER IN CONTRACT OR IN TORT, EVEN IF GIBSON OR ITS AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES, AND GIBSON SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY EXPENSES, CLAIMS, OR SUITS ARISING OUT OF OR RELATING TO ANY OF THE FOREGOING.

 

Edited April 25, 2021 by Sgt. Pepper

[fortyearspickn]

Humidity. Spruce absorbs differently than Rosewood. Face will move a millimeter differently than RW Bridge.  Spruce underside is unfinished and exposed to changes in air.  Rosewood bridge, not as much.   They must have missed a smidgeon of glue on the bridge.  You said you could ever so slightly slip the corner of a piece of paper under one section of the bridge.   I would not kick her out of bed for a slightly visible crumb.   But, it seems like you've not yet bonded, so may be best to bring back to GC and wait for the new one in July. 

[Sgt. Pepper]

You seem to keep finding stuff wrong with a guitar that was sitting around at GC since late 2019. Who knows how many people and employees took liberties with it in the over a year it was there. If you send it back is GC going to consider it a used guitar and give the next buyer the 20% off or will it go back up in price to close to what they originally sold it to you for? You gotta decide if all the stuff you are finding is acceptable to you even with the about $900 they returned to you and what will you find at day 41 when its too late to return it?

Edited April 25, 2021 by Sgt. Pepper

[golfski]

Thanks for the continued wonderful information!  I am loving this SJ200!  I might be too much in love at this point to go back :). I'm going to contact Gibson to validate warranty info and if this should be resolved (and can be easily/quickly) and then will go from there.  Given the few posts I have seen about this on J200 style bridges, seems cosmetic and not structural to the bridge...to fortyears point, how that she's in bed with me, I don't think I'd kick her out for these issues.

 

I recorded my practice last night with an SM57, holy moly does this guitar sound great under a mic!  I actually found myself playing and listening through my headphones as it sounded so good! 

[golfski]

2 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

You seem to keep finding stuff wrong with a guitar that was sitting around at GC since late 2019. Who knows how many people and employees took liberties with it in the over a year it was there. If you send it back is GC going to consider it a used guitar and give the next buyer the 20% off or will it go back up in price to close to what they originally sold it to you for? You gotta decide if all the stuff you are finding is acceptable to you even with the about $900 they returned to you and what will you find at day 41 when its too late to return it?

That last part is my biggest worry - so as long as these things are not structural I am not concerned...the cosmetic stuff doesn't bother me anymore like it did at full price!  Part of my worry is I keep playing it and falling more and more in love :) I am not looking for these things on purpose, just giving everything a thorough once over so I limit the unknowns.

To be honest, given that I am a noob, I am not sure what to care about and what not to care about, which is why I keep posting these findings.  The perfectionist in me always wants a clean slate - but the practical side of me knows these guitars have survived World Wars and still work beautifully and I worry that this sound is set it my ear and won't be able to replicate.  When I bought my LP, I bought a 50's Standard and loved the sound of it.  My teacher said the fretboard was a little dry so I took it back to the store to look at it and they wanted to exchange it.  I hated the sound of that replacement so much I went back and exchanged it back for the original LP I had and just applied some conditioner :) and couldn't be happier. 

[Twang Gang]

Each Gibson is a little different and can sound a little different.  Since you seem to love the sound of this one so much I'd say keep it.  You may never find another one (or the new 185) that sounds as good to your ear.  I had a SJ200 standard and it was cosmetically almost perfect (one little ding that was hard to see), but it was a quiet giant.  Sounded great plugged in with the Anthem pickup, but acoustically it didn't cut it for me so I ended up trading it.  The sound is the most important part.  Even if the bridge pulls up a little bit more that can always be fixed with some glue and a clamp.  I say keep it and enjoy the sound!

[Jinder]

Don’t worry about the paper gap under the bridge curlicue. My old 2003 SJ200 had that on both sides of the bridge and stayed that way for nine years and over 2000 gigs. The main “block” of the bridge is the important part, the outer wings are for decoration’s sake.

It sounds to me like you’re really into the sound and playability-this is so vital. As per anything made from organic matter, every acoustic guitar is unique and you may play a hundred other SJ200s and never find one that sounds and responds like yours. 
 

Likewise, as with anything made from bits of tree, excellence is very much possible but perfection is not. All traditionally made and hand built instruments have quirks, odd bits of grain pattern, uneven areas etc. Even super high end, would-be perfectionist builders like Collings etc have to surrender to the fact that they are at the mercy of the living, breathing tonewoods under their fingers.
 

Don’t sweat the small cosmetic stuff. It won’t even cross your mind in a year or so. It will just be your guitar. If any issues occur further down the road out of warranty/return period, anything and everything can be put right by the correct luthier. There is nothing to worry about, honestly-just play and enjoy. You have a wonderful guitar and a new bunch of friends amongst us lot here, life is good!!

[j45nick]

5 hours ago, golfski said:

Thanks for the continued wonderful information!  I am loving this SJ200!  I might be too much in love at this point to go back :). I'm going to contact Gibson to validate warranty info and if this should be resolved (and can be easily/quickly) and then will go from there.  Given the few posts I have seen about this on J200 style bridges, seems cosmetic and not structural to the bridge...to fortyears point, how that she's in bed with me, I don't think I'd kick her out for these issues.

If Gibson does a warranty repair, it will consist of injecting a little Titebond into the gap, clamping it, cleaning the squeeze-out with a damp rag, and walking away from it for 24 hours.

No more gap, no more worry.

Play it, and enjoy.

[meanstreak]

Return that one and buy the Noel Gallagher J-150 when it comes out in a couple months - 
 

 

[Brucebubs]

1 hour ago, meanstreak said:

Return that one and buy the Noel Gallagher J-150 when it comes out in a couple months - 
 

 

Nice but it's like a flat chested Raquel Welch - if you have an SJ-200 there's just too much missing.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Brucebubs

[Jinder]

2 hours ago, Brucebubs said:

Nice but it's like a flat chested Raquel Welch - if you have an SJ-200 there's just too much missing.

I agree. Nothing wrong with a 150 and I’m sure the NG signature model will be very good, but personally I wouldn’t return a 200 to trade downwards in terms of appointments and spec. 

[BoSoxBiker]

Many recent signature guitars have come with baked tops. I assume the NG does not? If it does, that might be a big deciding point for someone. Otherwise, why the $5k I read elsewhere for the NG?

[Dave F]

If I went through this much anxiety on every purchase I probably wouldn’t have a case of extreme GAS. I may have a few ulcers but no GAS. 

[fortyearspickn]

1 hour ago, Dave F said:

If I went through this much anxiety on every purchase I probably wouldn’t have a case of extreme GAS. I may have a few ulcers but no GAS. 

"... these guitars have survived World Wars and still work beautifully and I worry that this sound is set it my ear and won't be able to replicate.  When I bought my LP, I bought a 50's Standard and loved the sound of it.  My teacher said the fretboard was a little dry so I took it back to the store..."

Very Interesting ....

[golfski]

1 hour ago, fortyearspickn said:

"... these guitars have survived World Wars and still work beautifully and I worry that this sound is set it my ear and won't be able to replicate.  When I bought my LP, I bought a 50's Standard and loved the sound of it.  My teacher said the fretboard was a little dry so I took it back to the store..."

Very Interesting ....

Excuse my ignorance, but what was interesting?  The fretboard being dry?  I applied some conditioner and now it looks much better.  

[golfski]

8 hours ago, Jinder said:

I agree. Nothing wrong with a 150 and I’m sure the NG signature model will be very good, but personally I wouldn’t return a 200 to trade downwards in terms of appointments and spec. 

I am not sure if its serendipity, that the NG 150 came into this discussion because my sales guy actually called me yesterday and said he could get me the NG J-150!  So now, I think I am going to be in this exact situation!!!

 

Do I keep this Sj-200 at a discount or take the NG 150 @ $4299?  Or Keep both?

 

The reason I know about these guitars is because of Noel and Oasis, its the reason I started playing guitar in the first place.  I think I would prefer no binding on the neck - but is the neck the same shape/size?

[meanstreak]

On 4/26/2021 at 12:15 PM, golfski said:

I am not sure if its serendipity, that the NG 150 came into this discussion because my sales guy actually called me yesterday and said he could get me the NG J-150!  So now, I think I am going to be in this exact situation!!!

 

Do I keep this Sj-200 at a discount or take the NG 150 @ $4299?  Or Keep both?

 

The reason I know about these guitars is because of Noel and Oasis, its the reason I started playing guitar in the first place.  I think I would prefer no binding on the neck - but is the neck the same shape/size?

Any chance I can get that discount?  lol 

Noel and Oasis music is also why I started playing.  I have the Epi Supernova and this SJ-150 would round out the collection well.  It’s my understanding the guitars are built the same, just a bit less bling on the 150 vs the 200.

[kidblast]

On 4/26/2021 at 1:15 PM, golfski said:

Do I keep this Sj-200 at a discount or take the NG 150 @ $4299?  Or Keep both?

you are asking the wrong group of nerds that question...  

BOTH of course!