Thoughts on this SJ-200?

[golfski]

Hey All, 

Been playing only about 6 months but have fallen in the deep end and in love with playing guitar!  The SJ-200 has always been on my radar even before playing (Oasis, The King, etc.).  I just couldn't hold off any longer so I ordered a new one from GC and was so excited!  However when I got it, it obviously was a long-term wall hanger, it was built in late 2019 and other than plenty of swirls and one deeper scratch on the back, condition wise would be excellent/very good on Reverb.  The only other area that showed some abuse was there is an indent on the headstock from what appears to be a tuner left on for a VERY VERY long time.  

I called up GC and they gave me a 20% discount on this one or a 10% discount on a new one that wouldn't be delivered until July.  I am inclined to keep this one and start making music! It took a lot to work up to getting this mentally given all the other guitars I have bought in my early journey and I normally am pretty anal about my expensive items/collectables, but I also know what it will look like 6 months from now after playing it for hours a day :).

What would you do?  Would it bother you or take the deal and run on one of the hardest to find guitars right now?  My only real concern is if the headstock imprint a symptom of poor storage (humidity, etc?).

Edited April 22, 2021 by golfski

[cunningham26]

I want to start a business where  i charge folks $100 to put the first scratch into their expensive object so they don' have to feel that pain of doing it themselves. I'd say with 20% off and plans to make it your own, it'll break in and you won't think too much about it. or just get a snark of your own and put it over it- boom it's gone!

[BoSoxBiker]

That picture of the headstock looks odd, like a reflection of something got in the way of what you wanted to show?

[kidblast]

Hey Golfski

The mark on the headstock is a bit hard to figure out, appears a light reflection is obscuring the detail of that blem.   That a tuner would be left on a headstock on a new guitar on a rack at a GC is a bit odd but that is definitely a probably cause.  does not look to me like a side effect of humidity or dryness from what I can see with that photo. 

A common issue around machine heads is the nut gets cranked down too tight and crushes the finish under the washer,  that doesn't seem to be the case with this one but the reflections make it hard to know for sure.

The scratch on the back,  can probably be helped with a good nitro safe scratch remover, Probably never get rid of it completely but you can probably improve it. 

Since these are blems that occurred probably at GC, I can only say; that's how guitars at GC wind up.   People are just not careful and the people that work at GC often just don't take the time to make sure customers don't mishandle the stock.

But that said, if these don't bother you, you're going to put your own marks on it over time anyway.

You're right, things are hard to get right now with the supply chain still a mess, so you could be waiting for a long while.  If you are happy with the discount and like the guitar,  I'd probably keep it.   I have a 2016 and I love the darn thing.. 

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by kidblast

[zombywoof]

First welcome.  But geez six months of playing and you worked up to a J200?  After six months of playing I had managed to work my way up from an old archtop which had been given me by a friend of my grandfather to a used Harmony Stella.  At the time I did not know a good guitar from a can of tuna so was thrilled with it.

For what it is worth do not overthink it all.  Looking at the minor damage on yours I would still class the guitar as being in excellent condition.  Excellent does not mean imperfection free.  And with a discount thrown in and no new guitars available I am not sure what the dilemma is.  

[fortyearspickn]

Golfski -   This is a dilemma  for sure.  In spite of your relative newbie status - you raise a good question.     The scratch on the back is no big deal.  Being 'new old stock'  would not be if it were at a dealer that didn't let pimply 16 year olds come in off the street and test drive their stuff.   But I'm mystified by that headstock irregularity.  Can't tell from the photo - is the damage only in the finish, or does the wood itself look at all affected?   If the wood is involved, I would bring it back. All you're getting is an extra 10% for that gamble.  I always clip my tuner at the top end of the headstock - on top of the "Gibson", not sure mine would fit where your damage is next to the post. And, as KidBlast noted - it would be weird for GC to leave a tuner on long enough to do damage.  Of course, the nitro finish is still curing in the first several months, so it's possible.   If I were me - I'd bring it back.  Waiting 3 months for one that isn't shop worn would be worth it.   Having dealt with GC on  high end instruments they haven't received from the manufacturer,   I would make sure you have a specific date and have clear paperwork indicating exactly what you've put down as a deposit.  G'Luck. 

[jvi]

If your in  LOVE  with the sound and "feel" Id say keep it and enjoy.

[Cougar]

4 hours ago, zombywoof said:

First welcome.  But geez six months of playing and you worked up to a J200?  After six months of playing I had managed to work my way up from an old archtop which had been given me by a friend of my grandfather to a used Harmony Stella.  At the time I did not know a good guitar from a can of tuna so was thrilled with it.

Haha!  Yeah, took me several years to decide to buy a guitar that cost more than $500! 

That headstock flaw is a problem for me.  I agree with fortyears -- take the deal for 10% off a new one arriving in July.  This is two or three months compared to the decade(s) you're going to have this guitar.  An SJ200 is pretty much an ultimate 6-string, at least in my book.  You don't go up from there -- you're already there.  Get one that at least starts out perfect.  

[golfski]

Thanks for all the details and advice!  I do tend to escalate fast when I get into things, my poor bank account took a beating when I first got into watches 🙂.  One of the advantages of learning later in life (almost 40) is I can afford the nicer guitar as a noob.   I tend to go through a bunch up front, trying to find something that will last forever and that I will build a relationship with, lol.  

I tried two take more pictures of the headstock imprint but I can't seem to post anymore to this thread(?).  To answer fortyyearspickin, I think it might just be the finish.  I can't really feel the imprint but I see it.  At first I thought it was glue, but it is definitely not, it is some sort of imprint as I couldn't wipe it off.   Based on one comment about about getting a snark tuner to put over it, I looked at Snark tuners (unfamiliar to me, I use iPhone) and I found an amazon review that seems to call this out EXACTLY! https://www.amazon.com/Snark-Instrument-Clip-Chromatic-Tuner/dp/B003VWKPHC?th=1.  

"Update:
Do not use a Snark on Gibson or any Nitrocellulose headstock. It will leave impressions that cannot be undone! They now admit this on their website."  

I took it to GC yesterday and they did a setup and looked over it, they said it looked great, only those cosmetic things.  I trust the luthier there (as far as a noob can) as he has done my setups on my D-18 and other acoustics (I told you, I tend to escalate fast, I have 5 guitars already including an LP!).   I also got them to throw in some free strings (sent to me) and some other swag/gear.  Since they have a 45-day return policy, I am inclined to see if I bond with this thing, she is sounding amazing after setup and new strings.  To the point above, if I like the sound and feel of this guitar after playing, I worry I might get something that doesn't sound good to me.

[Sgt. Pepper]

You said its a late built 2019 and you suspected it had been hanging there since then. Is it being sold as used or new old stock?

Edited April 23, 2021 by Sgt. Pepper

[thegreatgumbino]

I had a Gibson with the dreaded tuner impression in the headstock.  It can be buffed out by a competent repair guy.  Mine was hardly noticeable after being done.  To clarify, my understanding is they used micro mesh level it out and then buffed it.

Edited April 23, 2021 by thegreatgumbino
Clarification

[golfski]

55 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

You said its a late built 2019 and you suspected it had been hanging there since then. Is it being sold as used or new old stock?

It was sold as new online at GuitarCenter.com, I called to inquire about shipping timelines and they did inform me the box was open, but that it was still brand new, so didn't think much of it.  When I got it and saw the condition, I called the 800 number and they gave me a 20% refund.  So, it is sold as new for registration and warranty purposes, etc. Not sold as used, I was sure two clarify.  

 

I assume it was a wall hanger, it actually had a replaced g-string, lol, where all the other strings were coated except the g-string was a PB string, so I am assuming it was the GC employees jamming on it over the years.  

[slimt]

A New guitar is suppose to wear naturally through time with the owner.    The headstock  flaw .  I wouldnt except that..  if it was me.  Thats a Gibson problem. D-lamination could spread further. 

[62burst]

You've been playing for about 6 months, and you can tell the difference between a phos/bronze and an 80/20 guitar string? Say, you do move fast. At 6 months in, I was using sticks and broken golf tees as bridge pins.

D'Addario makes a mini tuner that is easily forgotten on the headstock, and is small enough to not be seen when putting the guitar back in the case, especially when the display is mounted to be on the back of the headstock, only visible to the player. So there it stayed, for a week or 2. Then I found it. And this:

. . . The "D" shaped marks over the letters "s" and "o". The indentations in the lacquer were deep enough that Virtuoso Cleaner, which is a heavier compound than the Virtuoso Polish, had little effect. Ultimately, some microfine wet sanding paper was used (and for all that is holy, great care was taken to get nowhere near the edge of the headstock, where the finish would be thinner), finishing the job with the Virtuoso Polish. That was a few years ago, so the grit of wet paper used is forgotten, but it must've been no harsher than beat 1200/1500, or newish 2000g, being soaked first in warm water.

Just took a look today at Rosie, the Hummingbird Rosewood:

In doing this repair, and looking at the black lacquer finishes on other headstocks under truss rods, chips around the sides and nut, Gibson does/did put a fairly good coat of that black on the headstock, so there is a fairly good chance of pulling off a passable repair. This might, however, be an issue with the newer thin finishes used on the Historic models meant to simulate an older guitar.

Edited April 23, 2021 by 62burst

[bobouz]

This is very typical of Guitar Center.  Once something hits the floor, it can suffer terribly, but they’ll still ask full price for it.  Then it becomes a matter of negotiating with them at the point of sale, or as in this case, after you’ve received it via an internet sale & threaten to return it.

One thing to consider:  Traditionally, GC has run 15% discounts a number of times per year.  Things may have changed, but I’ve never purchased an instrument from them without getting 15% off.  They also will price match any sale price from another retail entity on regular stock items, including Musician’s Friend online - which they own.  MF will sometimes run sales that CG is not running.

At any rate, the good news is that you can always choose to do a full return, so the ball is totally in your court!

[Sgt. Pepper]

1 hour ago, golfski said:

It was sold as new online at GuitarCenter.com, I called to inquire about shipping timelines and they did inform me the box was open, but that it was still brand new, so didn't think much of it.  When I got it and saw the condition, I called the 800 number and they gave me a 20% refund.  So, it is sold as new for registration and warranty purposes, etc. Not sold as used, I was sure two clarify.  

 

I assume it was a wall hanger, it actually had a replaced g-string, lol, where all the other strings were coated except the g-string was a PB string, so I am assuming it was the GC employees jamming on it over the years.  

Did you just get it and did they charge you the 2019 price since that is what it is, or a 2021 price, minus the 20% discount?

Edited April 23, 2021 by Sgt. Pepper

[golfski]

14 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Did you just get it and did they charge you the 2019 price since that is what it is, or a 2021 price, minus the 20% discount?

They charged me 2021 price.  I don't think there is a difference in the model of the SJ-200 Standard in late 2019 vs. now, its just when it was built.  They had this online as the Gibson SJ-200 Standard in Vintage Sunburst, for $4659 (or something like that).  I am in a tax-free state, so I got this for that price - 20%.  

[Sgt. Pepper]

15 minutes ago, golfski said:

They charged me 2021 price.  I don't think there is a difference in the model of the SJ-200 Standard in late 2019 vs. now, its just when it was built.  They had this online as the Gibson SJ-200 Standard in Vintage Sunburst, for $4659 (or something like that).  I am in a tax-free state, so I got this for that price - 20%.  

I can do the math and that is not a bad price for that, you have to decide if you can live with it being road worn without the super inflated price.

[golfski]

3 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

I can do the math and that is not a bad price for that, you have to decide if you can live with it being road worn without the super inflated price.

Yeah - the nice thing is I have 40 days left to figure that out 🙂, but at this point I am inclined to keep it under the assumption this is a finish issue and one that isn't unique to this guitar but as 62burst pointed out has happened to him and I've seen other reviews about Gibson and these imprints.  My biggest concern was storage and if that was indication of improper humidity and longer term problems I could have.    However, if that NG J-150 sig model comes out in the next 40 days and I can get one (I asked GC and they can't get it) then either she gets a sibling or I may be much more inclined to return this one for that.  

 

One other question that will help me make a decision is around Gibson warranty.  I read that they are not transferable?  So, if that is true, I feel like I got a steal in that I got a 'used' guitar at a used guitar price, but I still have full warranty since it was technically sold as new.  

 

if you look at Reverb, even the few year old used ones are selling around MSRP for a new one since they are hard to find and not a high volume guitar.  

[Sgt. Pepper]

20 hours ago, golfski said:

Yeah - the nice thing is I have 40 days left to figure that out 🙂, but at this point I am inclined to keep it under the assumption this is a finish issue and one that isn't unique to this guitar but as 62burst pointed out has happened to him and I've seen other reviews about Gibson and these imprints.  My biggest concern was storage and if that was indication of improper humidity and longer term problems I could have.    However, if that NG J-150 sig model comes out in the next 40 days and I can get one (I asked GC and they can't get it) then either she gets a sibling or I may be much more inclined to return this one for that.  

 

One other question that will help me make a decision is around Gibson warranty.  I read that they are not transferable?  So, if that is true, I feel like I got a steal in that I got a 'used' guitar at a used guitar price, but I still have full warranty since it was technically sold as new.  

 

if you look at Reverb, even the few year old used ones are selling around MSRP for a new one since they are hard to find and not a high volume guitar.  

Take it to a good luthier if you do not know how to tell if you need it to be hydrated for a while. I bought a 2001 Martin that was never sold in 2013 or so and it needed serious hydration before it could be set up properly. It took the luthier over a month to get it right. The time difference between that one and yours is an eternity.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Sgt. Pepper

[Cougar]

16 hours ago, golfski said:

....I am inclined to keep it under the assumption this is a finish issue....

That works.  It's an SJ200!  Major congrats!

 

 

[fortyearspickn]

19 hours ago, slimt said:

A New guitar is suppose to wear naturally through time with the owner.    The headstock  flaw .  I wouldnt except that..  if it was me.  Thats a Gibson problem. D-lamination could spread further. 

How did you reach the conclusion that this is  '' a Gibson problem' ?

[slimt]

23 minutes ago, fortyearspickn said:

How did you reach the conclusion that this is  '' a Gibson problem' ?

Gibson since the 1990s has always had problems with applying way to much product for a glossy finish.  Its thick.     Fullerplast did not help.  
When the dyes are put on for color.  It has a tendency to either dry to hard where the clear just sits on top and does not bite into the base finish.
Causing the clear to pop off or blister.    
 

then we have clear that is applied so thick. It creates another issue.    I had a SJ200 Made for me in 94.  Beautiful guitar.    However. Instead of having fine over the years lacquer checking.  It looks like broken glass.    It actually looks aweful.   
 

I guess it all depends where you live , to how your guitar is going to react to humidity and up and down temps.  
 

Clear is not ment to just blister unless it was not applied right.  

[Lars68]

I see no reasons why those marks could not be polished out.  I have made some pretty bad looking scratches and marks go away using the stuff below.

https://virtuosopolish.com

https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/tools-by-job/tools-for-finishing/foam-polishing-pads.html

https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/tools-by-job/tools-for-finishing/kovax-tolecut-finish-repair-system.html

You go slow and take your time.

Lars

 

 

 

[Leonard McCoy]

On 4/22/2021 at 11:33 PM, golfski said:

 

Two many windings on the E string posts.