badbluesplayer Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 There's a reason why you don't get any extra points in engineering for reinventing the wheel. 'Cause it's a waste of time. So I tried treble bleeds on my guitars a couple times, and with all the excitement of everything, I ended up with treble bleeds on all my electric guitars. And they suck. I finally found some good info on what they actually do to the circuit, with all these frequency response graphs of different kinds of circuits, including treble bleeds vs. regular wiring and fifties wiring. Some guy did all these computer models of the stuff. And now it just finally occurred to me that all these treble bleed circuits, and fifties wiring, to a degree - they all cut bass response across the whole frequency range. And all it does is make the signal thin at any volume. And nothing was ever designed to work with that. Amps weren't designed for that. Neither was anything else - pedals, cables, shoes, boats. Nothing was ever designed to work with a treble bleed circuit. So I apologize to Leo Fender, Orville Gibson, Jim Marshall, Les Paul, Paul McCartney and McCartney Soldano. Jimmy Hendryx and my friend Tony Hendrix. The members of the forum, and any and all persons who may be wronged my my former lack of good judgement. That was a waste of time. No more treble bleeds! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 I don't accept your apology as it is not needed. There was a time, I can think of two or three of my early 70's guitars, that capping the volume(that's what we called it) was a requirement. Most Fedners of the time were just icepick-y at the bridge pickup, and thin and wimpy as you moved the volume knob to what should be a good spot. So I too ended up with all of my volumes capped. But that was then. I stopped doing that in the early 90's. There was, for whatever reason, no longer a need for that. Proper value pots? Better pickups? Better wiring? I don't know why, but the need to cap volumes just went away. Maybe our hearing got better and we stopped having to have others tell us what is "right". Maybe that's it. rct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinch Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 Interesting post. I have no experience with treble bleeds, but I was curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 (edited) I tried it once or twice when I had electrics. If anyone studied, or possibly is an electrician, and had electrical theory shoved down their throat, you would know putting caps, and inductors (bigger or smaller, or adding any when none were originally there) in a circuit is going to change the way a circuit behaves (in the case of a guitar how it sounds). It’s what a Varitone does, caps and an inductor with different values at different positions on the 6 position switch. Each one more annoying than the next one. I’m not apologizing either. Edited November 27, 2022 by Sgt. Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted November 27, 2022 Author Share Posted November 27, 2022 (edited) I apologize to every amp that has the volume control after the first gain stage (anything like, post 1950) and was not designed for the first stage to have, like, way-low input. 🤦♂️ No more chasing tone like that. Ewww. Apologize to my wife, my analyst, my bandmates... Apologize to my parents, Worcester Polytechnic Institute, everybody who supported me... Edited November 27, 2022 by badbluesplayer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 There are many flavors of ice cream. “My Sound”, subjective as it is, is derived from the Telecaster with stock 70s 1 Meg pots and a .001 cap, volume knob tweaked to suit the tone required at that second. This fed into a 1973 Ampeg GT-10 with every knob cranked to the max. Subjective ice cream…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 Truth, ksdaddy. "My Sound" is a stock Esquire, back and front switch positions, caps and resistors galore in them things to make them Esquires, into a '68 Custom Princeton with each and every knob on 10. Exhilarating. rct 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 (edited) At least you have been sofisticated enough to try to address what you thought was a tone deficiency. In college (early 80s) I used to throw a blanket over my non master volume amp to get overdrive and not blow everyone out of the room. Talk about treble bleed. Edited November 28, 2022 by Tman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 12 minutes ago, Tman said: At least you have been sofisticated enough to try to address what you thought was a tone deficiency. In college (early 80s) I used to throw a blanket over my non master volume amp to get overdrive and not blow everyone out of the room. Talk about treble bleed. lolz. We faced our cabinets backwards. rct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 23 minutes ago, rct said: lolz. We faced our cabinets backwards. rct I wasn't smart enough to go that route. Live and loin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, Tman said: I wasn't smart enough to go that route. Live and loin. Man, I wouldn't trade anything for them days. It was hard! rct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 Hope Springs Eternal ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 Nice to know about treble bleeds. I did wonder... What about capacitors? I dont mean values, but the brands? Are orange drops really any better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted November 28, 2022 Author Share Posted November 28, 2022 17 hours ago, ghost_of_fl said: And here I thought you were going to apologize for being such a general d-bag. Dang, never been called a General before. Nahse! Now if you'da called me "General Lee a dee bag" Ah'd a been rhally impressedifahd." Thank You - Thank you very much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinch Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 Yeah, where did that come from? 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, merciful-evans said: Nice to know about treble bleeds. I did wonder... What about capacitors? I dont mean values, but the brands? Are orange drops really any better? Some say Russian PIO (paper in oil) caps are the best. Not sure what kind OD’s are, but capacitance is capacitance. A .22uf cap is .22uf weather it’s PIO, a Mylar cap or a ceramic disc one. Edited November 28, 2022 by Sgt. Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 Just now, Farnsbarns said: I will disagree. The discharge rates of different chemistries certainly has a demonstrable effect on a scope. I wont argue that it's audible, coz that's been argued to death for decades. Oh yeah all us that play, and see live music all still have perfect hearing, right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 (edited) The only thing that a capacitor does is it charges and discharges. We use them for filtering, but the capacitor doesn’t know that, it just charges and discharges, over and over again. When voltage applied it charges, and when it has a path for current to flow it discharges. I had to look this up cause it’s been a long time since I had electrical theory shoved in my head, but this is what I remember about discarding caps, and it has nothing to do with what the cap is made of: To calculate the time constant of a capacitor, the formula is τ=RC. This value yields the time (in seconds) that it takes a capacitor to discharge to 63% of the voltage that is charging it up. After 5 time constants, the capacitor will discharge to almost 0% of all its voltage. T is Time R is resistance C is capacitance Edited November 28, 2022 by Sgt. Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, ghost_of_fl said: General Lee is a great example. I thought that was the name of the car Beau and Luke Duke had in that 70’s TV show with Daisy Duke? I wanted to be her cuts offs. I’m a perv I know. Edited November 28, 2022 by Sgt. Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinch Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 I can't recall any ******baggery there. Maybe it's just me skipping over minor debates on covid and politics, and I've missed something. Or I'm distracted by the friendly-looking dog in his avatar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 59 minutes ago, Pinch said: I can't recall any ******baggery there. Maybe it's just me skipping over minor debates on covid and politics, and I've missed something. Or I'm distracted by the friendly-looking dog in his avatar. Let’s all just do shrooms and get over it. Who’s in? I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 (edited) This has almost everything a Gibson Lounge thread should have: I apologise You're a ***** I will disagree Time constant of a capacitor Daisy Duke Leo Fender, Orville Gibson, Jim Marshall, Les Paul Remember the old days Let's all take shrooms Superb Edited November 29, 2022 by jdgm 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 4 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said: Let’s all just do shrooms and get over it. Who’s in? I am. Yep, In a Rodney King sort of way 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 9 hours ago, Pinch said: 6 hours ago, Pinch said: I can't recall any ******baggery there. Maybe it's just me skipping over minor debates on covid and politics, and I've missed something. Or I'm distracted by the friendly-looking dog in his avatar. Yep. If you skip over that stuff you’ll live a longer, happier life. Cat pictures are more distracting than dog pictures though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 18 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said: The only thing that a capacitor does is it charges and discharges. We use them for filtering, but the capacitor doesn’t know that, it just charges and discharges, over and over again. When voltage applied it charges, and when it has a path for current to flow it discharges. I had to look this up cause it’s been a long time since I had electrical theory shoved in my head, but this is what I remember about discarding caps, and it has nothing to do with what the cap is made of: To calculate the time constant of a capacitor, the formula is τ=RC. This value yields the time (in seconds) that it takes a capacitor to discharge to 63% of the voltage that is charging it up. After 5 time constants, the capacitor will discharge to almost 0% of all its voltage. T is Time R is resistance C is capacitance Sgt Pepper's Wife : Why are you insulate? Sgt. Pepper: Watts it to you? I'm ohm aren't I ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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