Temperature variance in studio for SJ200 1957 Montana

[Zob Bimmerman]

After a seemingly endless wait, I have gratefully received my new Gibson SJ200 1957 Montana.

Wow is all I can say. As a Producer of some years now, I don’t say that lightly. It’s a game changer, simple as that - but I hardly need to convince anyone of that here!

My question is about temperature…

I’m in London, UK, and it’s winter now so my  home studio has an ambient temperature variance of 13 - 20 degrees celsius. In summer the temperature can vary from 20 - 35 degrees celsius! Humidity seems to average at around 65 RH in winter and 50 RH in summer.

Until I’d owned such an expensive guitar, I’d never considered whether these kinds of temperature changes might negatively impact the structural integrity of acoustic instruments.

Am I safe to leave the guitar out of its case? Or do I need a thermal regulator eg an oil-filled heater / air conditioner set to, say, 20 degrees celsius all year round?

 Many thanks for your wise advice!

[jedzep]

I'd like dollar for everyone who disagrees with this, but I'd leave the guitar on a stand or inside wall (not above direct heat) hanger for easy access, and let it acclimate to the seasonal changes slowly over time, absorbing and shedding moisture naturally.  Chasing guitar hydration, except for use of whole space room units, is a zillion dollar business for what amounts to guesswork.

[Murph]

Yep. Mine have hung on the same wall for over 20 years.

[Murph]

Except when they go gigging....

[kidblast]

you know what they say opinions are like right???

 

I am on the other side of the fence.

I live in New Egland, right now, the RH is 20~25%   it bounces all over the place during the season changes

I'll offer this comparison, I have a buddy with an SJ200, lives about 10 minutes from me.

He leaves it out on a stand.  He is considering selling it because the neck is constantly moving and he's constantly battling setup issues.

Mine stays in the case, and it was setup once, and I've never had to touch it since.  I don't think I've even adjusted the truss rod more than once in the 6 years I've had it

His has been back to the same setup tech I use about 6 times.

His J200 is a 2015,  mine is a 2016.  that's just about the only "real" difference.

You can think about this for a few minutes, then do whatever you want.  

Edited to add:

Temperature changes are not the real key factor here, as long as the shift isn't too drastic.   you don't want nitro going from a freezing cold place to a warm place.

that's bad.  but 5  /  10 degree shifts 

It's the lack of, or excessive amount of humidity that will lead to problems.

Edited December 27, 2022 by kidblast

[fortyearspickn]

We tend to pay more attention to the temperatures in our homes than the humidity.   Heating a home in winter sucks the humidity out of the air.  And that dries out anything that holds water in the room.  Leather couch, wood floor, guitars, etc.   You  may feel comfortable, but not the thin wood in your guitar.  
If a baby will comfortable with the temperature, your guitar will.  That, of course, assumes no rapid changes.  You said you were only concerned with temp and not humidity because it averages  50 -65.  You need to be concerned  with the extremes, not the averages.  
I leave mine out on stands. Including an SJ200.  Never a problem. 

[fortyearspickn]

But I monitor the RH every day and use a small room humidifier when the heat is on. 

[GuitarsAnn]

I keep all my guitars in a Display case and right around 70 deg. F and 50% RH. They stay safe and in tune. It's not a cheap option but all my guitars stay in tune and no damage from weather.  A desiccant pack(s) helps reduce the humidity in the summer and a small dish of water helps increase it. Our home is kept around 71 degrees F. year around and humidity is also kept between  45 and 52 with AC and April Air humidifier. I can check on conditions daily with ease and catch any problems quickly. 

Edited December 27, 2022 by GuitarsAnn

[zombywoof]

Again, I worked as an historian in restored houses for decades which more often as not contained their original furnishings.  We had devices scattered around the places which took temp and humidity readings every 10 minutes.  It was not the readings we got over a prolonged period of time which put our knickers in a twist.  That we could deal with by either changing settings or if necessary going with portable humidifier, fans. or conversely a whole lot of silica gel scattered around.   It was the sudden drastic changes which sent us scurrying to try and find what had caused it.  It generally had something to do with say the air handlers cutting out.   But we also set everything at what was not necessarily the most comfortable for human beings but what was better to protect what they were seeing.  

When it comes to my guitars, last Friday when the temperature dropped 45 degrees in just a couple of hours,  I made my rounds to ensure that every guitar was in its case and did not need water beads added, sponges dampened, humidipacks replaced or whatever I was using in that particular case.  Oddly, I tend to worry more about the two newish guitars we own.  I figure our old ones have survived everything Mother Nature has thrown at them.

Edited December 27, 2022 by zombywoof

[Dave F]

Just from my experience, I tend to baby new ones for at least a few years. I’ve had a couple develop finish cracks/splits in their first winter so I had to kick up the humidity in the guitar room.  All my guitars set out or hang on a wall. 

[Sgt. Pepper]

2 hours ago, fortyearspickn said:

We tend to pay more attention to the temperatures in our homes than the humidity.   Heating a home in winter sucks the humidity out of the air.  And that dries out anything that holds water in the room.  Leather couch, wood floor, guitars, etc.   You  may feel comfortable, but not the thin wood in your guitar.  
If a baby will comfortable with the temperature, your guitar will.  That, of course, assumes no rapid changes.  You said you were only concerned with temp and not humidity because it averages  50 -65.  You need to be concerned  with the extremes, not the averages.  
I leave mine out on stands. Including an SJ200.  Never a problem. 

Guess what in the summer when the AC is running, as 40 says, that sucks the humidity out of the air as well. It can or maybe can't be proved, but I've heard some say AC is worse that Heat.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Sgt. Pepper

[Dave F]

In the summertime I have to run a dehumidifier 24/7

I guess it matters where you live. 

[Murph]

29 minutes ago, Dave F said:

I guess it matters where you live. 

 

Touche'

[J185cat]

My fear is sudden changes, temp or humidity. I may be obsessive about it but I would rather err on the side of caution.

[Twang Gang]

Temperature is not as critical as humidity as long as it's not a rapid change.  I have always kept my guitars in their cases and often add humidity in the winter when the heat is on all the time drying out the air.  Try to keep the humidity between 45 and 50%.

[kidblast]

46 minutes ago, J185cat said:

My fear is sudden changes, temp or humidity. I may be obsessive about it but I would rather err on the side of caution.

yea, Those are the trouble makers IMHO.

And taking care of a fine (expensive) instrument has nothing to do with being obsessive.  I've seen the results of neglect.   These are things one cannot easily undo.

that's just my 2 cents anyway.

 

 

[Zob Bimmerman]

Fascinating, and enlightening, to read your real-world experiences of caring for these kinds of instruments. 

Here’s what I’m hearing as the headlines:

• Avoid exposure to sudden/rapid changes in temperature and humidity.

• Case-up the guitar if likely to be subjected to these dynamic shifts and/or if not being played for extended periods anyway.

• A sweet-spot environment is around 20 degrees celsius and 50 RH.

• Make enough money to own a climate controlled display cabinet - or room, ideally! 🙂

[olie]

I believe that there is enough information floating around the ether-sphere so that any concerned individual can make the appropriate decisions as how to protect her/his instruments. If you choose to ignore the science - well, it's on you. But you know the saying : common sense is an oxymoron.

[kidblast]

Olie sums it up.   it's your guitar,  do what you feel is appropriate for your own investment.  

I like them in the cases, and in the winter, with sound hole humidifiers.  Would they suffer  if I didn't have the humidifiers in the sound holes? 

that I'm not 100% sure but.  That's what "I" do.

Would they suffer if left them out during this time of year in my location, on a stand in my office or living room ?   100% "yes" to that!

Edited December 27, 2022 by kidblast

[Sevendaymelee]

Humdipack into the sound hole, keep it in case. That's all that needs to be done. 

[fortyearspickn]

On 12/27/2022 at 6:43 AM, jedzep said:

I'd like dollar for everyone who disagrees with this, but I'd leave the guitar on a stand or inside wall (not above direct heat) hanger for easy access, and let it acclimate to the seasonal changes slowly over time, absorbing and shedding moisture naturally.  Chasing guitar hydration, except for use of whole space room units, is a zillion dollar business for what amounts to guesswork.

Jed,  7day appears to owe you a dollar.    

[jedzep]

Hehe.  I think I have a few bucks coming.  Probably more to follow.

[Murph]

23 hours ago, J185cat said:

My fear is sudden changes, temp or humidity. I may be obsessive about it but I would rather err on the side of caution.

 

While it's scary, my J-45 has done gigs in Jan. where it rode in the back of a pickup with a topper (unheated, in it's case) and only had 45 minutes to climatize before a show.

It sucks, but working guitars see this every day.

They're tougher than some people think.

[chipss36]

And many old guitars have cracks in the tops, backs and sides, or have lifted bridges and loose braces….and on and on. 

so clearly many guitars are NOT as tough as people seem to think. Many examples exist of exactly what I am saying…even newer ones. 

so big changes in temperatures and humidity may be just fine in your lifetime, and it may not,  Or could be next week…who knows. 

the thing is, today we understand all this better, than ever before, and have low cost solutions, for keeping an expensive guitar, in a case, with two way humility control is a few bucks. 
Takes seconds to take it out of its case, are people really that lazy now? 
Keeping the guitar stable has advantages the necks shift less, the neck relief shifts less. Most of the time it’s still in tune from the last go. This is not the case with a guitar sitting on a stand or hung on a wall. 
 

Ask any repair luthier. Look at any prewar guitar on reverb, and count the cracks. It’s a thing. A real thing.

op I would not risk it with a sj200!
but I don’t even with my lesser acoustic guitars. I used to have them hanging on a wall, I now know better. 
 

if you need a wall hanger, get an overbuild poly beater. A light canon style build , like thin top , scallop bracing , and nitro do not fair as well. 

[Lars68]

I live in Sweden and here the RH can drop to single digits some times in the winter. Luckily we have a very small closet with a heating radiator. I keep my guitars in their cases and put all the cases in the closet during winter. Then I have a big bowl of water under the radiator, with a towel hanging over the radiator with its ends down in the bowl. It works as a home made humidifier, which I refill about every two to three weeks depending on the weather. 

I'd like to throw in a big warning regarding the sound hole humidifiers made of rubber/plastic (like the Kysers). One of those reacted with the nitro finish on a Martin I owned some years back. So the very thing I bought to protect my guitar ended up damaging it. I was not happy about that. The lesson is: don't let ANYTHING made out of plastic/vinyl/ rubber touch your guitar for a longer period of time, like straps, capos, clip-on tuners, humidifiers, wall hangers, stands etc etc. If a manufacturer says “safe for nitro finishes”, don't believe them! I wrap the rubber parts on all my hangers and stands with cloth tape, just to be safe…

Lars