Light bulbs

[Sgt. Pepper]

19 hours ago, merciful-evans said:

how many guitarists does it take to change a light bulb. 

14 so far...

Just 2. Me to do the task, and one guy drinking a beer telling me I’m doing it wrong.

[DanvillRob]

7 minutes ago, fortyearspickn said:

I think the major things impacting a home's electric bill are the  Heating Cooling system, washer/dryer, and all the kitchen appliances.  A half dozen light bulbs you use only for  a few hours at night - not so much.   it's like when they tell you to buy an new  $2,000 refrigerator - so you can save $3 a month on your electric bill.    Saw an article that said the average home would only save $5 a year switching from Incandescent to LED, but it factored in the cost of buying all new bulbs. 

 

I put in solar about 6 years ago.... the number of panels was based on averaging my usage over the previous year.

Since that time, I've installed double pane windows throughout the entire house, took out the 1987 ovens and replaced them with 2022 ovens, replaced the mudroom refrigerator from  a 1986 model to a 2007 model, (moved from the kitchen), replaced the 2007 dishwasher with a 2022 model, and even changed the stove from an electric one to a gas stove....and STILL the electric usage hasn't changed hardly at all!

[Sgt. Pepper]

I changed every light out in the house to LED’s a year or so ago. The only light in the house that is not is the fluorescent fixture in the garage. When it dies I’m gonna get an LED replacement for it and bypass the ballast.

Edited August 5, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper

[Whitefang]

For many years Detroit Edison, who used to be Southeast Michigan's primary source of electric energy had small office locations in many neighborhoods and suburban cities.  And for decades you could take your burned out incadescent bulbs and trade them for new Edison brand light bulbs.  For free.  You could also go there to get your table radio, lamps, toasters or other small electrical items for repair at a very modest price.  And also pay your light bill there too.  I remember many times, when visiting my Grandma, being sent to the local Edison office(a five minute or so walk from her house) with a brown paper shopping bag full of burned out bulbs and trading them for new ones, taking them out of the huge bins they had in front of the counter.   And a few times sent there with a ticket stub and a small amount of cash to pick up her toaster or a radio she had there for repair.  For a few years after moving into my first house I too, went there for free replacement bulbs.  That all ended in the mid '70's when some d o u c h e sued Detroit Edison to stop giving out the free bulbs because he owned a drugstore somewhere that stocked light bulbs for sale and he claimed Edison offering free replacements was hurting his profits.  He won his case and Edison quit giving out the bulbs, and within a year the man's store was doing such poor business he had to close up shop and he moved it somewhere down in Florida.  Good riddance to the Motherjumper.

Whitefang

Edited August 5, 2023 by Whitefang

[fortyearspickn]

I remember reading somewhere that in the old USSR - people would bring their burned out lightbulbs to work, and secretly take out a working one and put in their broken one.  I don't know if they couldn't AFFORD new ones, or they weren't available, or they were 'rationed'.  

Sort of the opposite of Detroit's unusual approach.   I wish the city water company here would replace my dead grass - since their watering restrictions killed it. 

[Whitefang]

To which Detroit "unusual approach" do you refer?

Whitefang

[badbluesplayer]

Yes.

[saturn]

I'm just glad those stupid CFL bulbs have mostly gone away.

[Sgt. Pepper]

41 minutes ago, saturn said:

I'm just glad those stupid CFL bulbs have mostly gone away.

Fluorescent lights are the Devil. As an electrician I hate them. 

[sparquelito]

Wait;

My fluorescent lights tell me that electricians are the devil.

I'm getting mixed signals here.

🙁

[gearbasher]

How many psychologists does it take to change a light bulb?

None. The bulb has to want to change itself.

[fortyearspickn]

On 8/5/2023 at 9:40 AM, Whitefang said:

And for decades you could take your burned out incadescent bulbs and trade them for new Edison brand light bulbs.  For free. 

 

11 hours ago, Whitefang said:

To which Detroit "unusual approach" do you refer?

Whitefang

 

[Pinch]

On 8/4/2023 at 1:45 PM, Sgt. Pepper said:

In the USA on August 1st we will not be allowed to by incandescent light bulbs any more. Not sure if they are going to sell of what is on the shelf or not. I have had  new LED bulbs fail, but they are supposed to last a long time and reduce energy cost. Now some LED's do not like dimmer circuits. And most packs say they work with dimmers if they are designed to. 

Same here in Europe, but it happened almost ten years ago. I know it's the principle of the thing, but with electricity prices skyrocketing here now (many hundred percents up), no one would change back, and I don't think I've noticed the difference between the two different types ever. If anything, I would say my experience is that they're more durable overall. 

[Sheepdog1969]

KSDaddy commented about how LED bulbs made his guitar strings look funny when they were played when lighted by them. I had hoped that anyone else here would have expounded upon that seemingly minor issue, and why LEDs create this effect.

In 7th grade shop I learned that incandescent light sources were mandated for illumination of ALL moving machinery in industrial workplaces, especially when said workplace's primary lighting was produced by florescent lighting. WHY, you may ask? Because florescent lighting, AND LED LIGHTING, STROBE at 60HZ, and incandescent lighting does not. Why is this important? Strobing light sources can often give the illusion of a moving object NOT MOVING, where as non-strobing incandescent light sources do not.   

If you have an adjustable strobe light and a fan, point your adjustable strobe at any moving fan in a dark room, and you will be able to "stop the fan" by simply adjusting the strobe rate to the oscillation rate of the fan, (or by any factor of the oscillation rate of said fan divided or multiplied by the number of blades of said fan.). The strobe light cannot actually "stop" the fan, but when the strobe's light flashes strike the fan blades ONLY when they rotate into the same position as illuminated by the previous strobe flash, "persistence of vision" deceives our brain, thus creating the false perception of no fan movement. 

Since the advent of fluorescent lighting, OSHA has mandated that incandescent lighting provide primary illumination of all moving, reciprocating/oscillating machinery in workplaces, due to the dangers strobing light sources create based on how they may falsely create the perception of "no motion" of a moving object despite the objects actual motion. A circular saw blade, a band saw blade, a spinning lathe, etc., may appear to be motionless when illuminated by ANY strobing light source, WHEN SAID ITEMS ARE ACTUALLY IN MOTION. Because the heated filament of an incandescent light bulb continues to generate light, due to the filaments retention of heat between AC 60HZ power oscillations, incandescent bulbs do not strobe, thus their constant illumination will never deceive.

One wonders if those who implemented the incandescent light ban were even aware of the LED "strobe effect", or if they were even aware of the OSHA incandescent lighting of industrial machinery mandate.   One would think that OSHA bosses would have loudly and aggressively spoken out to the Biden admin. about this issue. Yes, LEDs could be made with some type of capacitor that would mitigate the 60HZ strobe issue, but there is no discussion of this in the current mandate, nor is there any "carve out" for incandescent light production needed to maintain OSHA industrial/manufacturing regulations.

Yes, LED lights tend to provide efficient, long lasting, lighting. And, yes, LED lighting has it's limitations. LED lighting is not currently as efficient for Oven, Refrigerator, and/or vibration intensive applications as incandescent bulbs designed for said applications. LED lighting is cost inefficient for "dimmable" applications, and LED longevity appears to directly relate to production quality.  LED energy consumption in relation to lumen output is indisputably far more efficient than incandescent lighting, and anyone's energy bill that did not decrease after implementing LEDs at home, is defiantly getting ripped off by their Energy provider.

Despite the benefits of application appropriate LED lighting solutions, how exactly will this government LED only mandate provide the work-place safety guarantees non-strobing, OSHA mandated, incandescent lighting currently provides, after the manufacture of incandescent lighting is outlawed? 

[Sgt. Pepper]

14 hours ago, sparquelito said:

Wait;

My fluorescent lights tell me that electricians are the devil.

I'm getting mixed signals here.

🙁

If the lights are talking to you you may need to see someone about that.

[Karloff]

2 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

If the lights are talking to you you may need to see someone about that.

that hasn't happened since the 70's ... lol

[Sheepdog1969]

Apparently the person who stated, "The truth will set you free",  knew what he was talking about. The woman I was "recently" dating, and who was spending the night with me, noticed my post about how light sources that "strobe" can create the illusion of non-movement regarding a moving object. She, apparently, was unable to conceptualize my comment, and disagreed with my assertion. Excited to demo my statement, I retrieved my variable rate strobe light and proceeded to "stop" my bedroom ceiling fan with it. For "Full Disclosure", I may have implied that I could actually not only "stop" the fan, but slow it down and/or reverse it with only light. (Remember that she claimed to have fully read my previous reply to this thread, and thought it to be false.)  

So, when without warning, she reached her hand up into the seemingly "stopped" ceiling fan, and got wacked by the rotating blades, I was somehow the bad guy. After many choice words directed at me, by her, she stormed out. The truth may  have just "set me free"! 

[DanvillRob]

11 minutes ago, Sheepdog1969 said:

Apparently the person who stated, "The truth will set you free",  knew what he was talking about. The woman I was "recently" dating, and who was spending the night with me, noticed my post about how light sources that "strobe" can create the illusion of non-movement regarding a moving object. She, apparently, was unable to conceptualize my comment, and disagreed with my assertion. Excited to demo my statement, I retrieved my variable rate strobe light and proceeded to "stop" my bedroom ceiling fan with it. For "Full Disclosure", I may have implied that I could actually not only "stop" the fan, but slow it down and/or reverse it with only light. (Remember that she claimed to have fully read my previous reply to this thread, and thought it to be false.)  

So, when without warning, she reached her hand up into the seemingly "stopped" ceiling fan, and got wacked by the rotating blades, I was somehow the bad guy. After many choice words directed at me, by her, she stormed out. The truth may  have just "set me free"! 

My grandson is obsessed with fans.... he wants them to go clockwise at full speed.

We rented a cabin in Tahoe for Thanksgiving a few years ago and there was a fan in his bedroom.

I looked at it and told him, "Too bad it only goes counter-clockwise."

He said, if you look in the mirror, it's going the right way! 

[Notes_Norton]

My personal experience is that they last much, much longer than the incandescent bulbs.

On the other hand, they don't work with a dimmer switch very well.

But it seems we no longer have a choice, so I guess that doesn't matter.

 

Notes ♫

[gearbasher]

As far as LEDs working with dimmers. A lot of the "dimmable" LEDs only work with compatible dimmer switches. 

Halogen bulbs are also banned. My three outdoor motion sensor lights will not work with LEDs. So, now I have to spend about $300.00 for three new, decent motion detectors.

[Sgt. Pepper]

4 hours ago, Sheepdog1969 said:

KSDaddy commented about how LED bulbs made his guitar strings look funny when they were played when lighted by them. I had hoped that anyone else here would have expounded upon that seemingly minor issue, and why LEDs create this effect.

In 7th grade shop I learned that incandescent light sources were mandated for illumination of ALL moving machinery in industrial workplaces, especially when said workplace's primary lighting was produced by florescent lighting. WHY, you may ask? Because florescent lighting, AND LED LIGHTING, STROBE at 60HZ, and incandescent lighting does not. Why is this important? Strobing light sources can often give the illusion of a moving object NOT MOVING, where as non-strobing incandescent light sources do not.   

If you have an adjustable strobe light and a fan, point your adjustable strobe at any moving fan in a dark room, and you will be able to "stop the fan" by simply adjusting the strobe rate to the oscillation rate of the fan, (or by any factor of the oscillation rate of said fan divided or multiplied by the number of blades of said fan.). The strobe light cannot actually "stop" the fan, but when the strobe's light flashes strike the fan blades ONLY when they rotate into the same position as illuminated by the previous strobe flash, "persistence of vision" deceives our brain, thus creating the false perception of no fan movement. 

Since the advent of fluorescent lighting, OSHA has mandated that incandescent lighting provide primary illumination of all moving, reciprocating/oscillating machinery in workplaces, due to the dangers strobing light sources create based on how they may falsely create the perception of "no motion" of a moving object despite the objects actual motion. A circular saw blade, a band saw blade, a spinning lathe, etc., may appear to be motionless when illuminated by ANY strobing light source, WHEN SAID ITEMS ARE ACTUALLY IN MOTION. Because the heated filament of an incandescent light bulb continues to generate light, due to the filaments retention of heat between AC 60HZ power oscillations, incandescent bulbs do not strobe, thus their constant illumination will never deceive.

One wonders if those who implemented the incandescent light ban were even aware of the LED "strobe effect", or if they were even aware of the OSHA incandescent lighting of industrial machinery mandate.   One would think that OSHA bosses would have loudly and aggressively spoken out to the Biden admin. about this issue. Yes, LEDs could be made with some type of capacitor that would mitigate the 60HZ strobe issue, but there is no discussion of this in the current mandate, nor is there any "carve out" for incandescent light production needed to maintain OSHA industrial/manufacturing regulations.

Yes, LED lights tend to provide efficient, long lasting, lighting. And, yes, LED lighting has it's limitations. LED lighting is not currently as efficient for Oven, Refrigerator, and/or vibration intensive applications as incandescent bulbs designed for said applications. LED lighting is cost inefficient for "dimmable" applications, and LED longevity appears to directly relate to production quality.  LED energy consumption in relation to lumen output is indisputably far more efficient than incandescent lighting, and anyone's energy bill that did not decrease after implementing LEDs at home, is defiantly getting ripped off by their Energy provider.

Despite the benefits of application appropriate LED lighting solutions, how exactly will this government LED only mandate provide the work-place safety guarantees non-strobing, OSHA mandated, incandescent lighting currently provides, after the manufacture of incandescent lighting is outlawed? 

The AC current going through an incandescent light bulb changes direction 120 (60 cycles or Hz) times a second. There is actually a point a which no current is flowing in the light. It happens every time the AC sine wave is at 0 degrees. It happens so fast we don't see it.  I worked in Engine Rooms quite a bit when In the service, which is basically the same as an industrial environment (motors, pumps, generators ect), and guess what kind of lighting was there, not incandescent and not LED. Now its probably LED's. But yes I did learn in my electrical school that fluorescent lights can make rotating machinery look like its going slower than it really is. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper

[Sgt. Pepper]

17 minutes ago, gearbasher said:

As far as LEDs working with dimmers. A lot of the "dimmable" LEDs only work with compatible dimmer switches. 

You are correct. So if you have a dimmer circuit, read the package make sure they work with dimmers.

[merciful-evans]

I don't think any of this is compatible with dark sucker theory.   https://siliconhell.com/darksucker-theory/

 

Basic Principles

The basis of the dark sucker theory is that electric bulbs suck dark. Take, for example, the dark suckers in the room where you are. There is less dark right next to them than there is elsewhere. The larger the dark sucker, the greater it’s capacity to suck dark. For example, the large devices on a football pitch have a much greater capacity than the ones in this room.

 

Limitations

As with all things, dark suckers don’t last forever. Once they are full of dark, they can no longer suck. This is proven by the black spot on a full device. A candle is an example of a very primitive sucking device. A new candle has a white wick. You will notice that after the first use, the wick turns black, representing all the dark which has been sucked into it. If you hold a pencil next to the wick of an operating candle, the tip will turn black because it got in the path of the dark flowing into the candle.

 

Portability

Unfortunately, these primitive suckers have a very limited range. There are also portable anti-black devices. The bulbs in these can’t handle all of the dark by themselves and must be aided by a dark storage unit. A common example of this is your everyday rechargeable battery. When the dark storage unit is full, it must be either emptied or replaced before the portable dark sucker can operate again. This is achieved by simply recharging the battery. At an atomic level, this removes the dark from the battery. This, in turn, returns the battery to full power.

[Sgt. Pepper]

2 hours ago, merciful-evans said:

I don't think any of this is compatible with dark sucker theory.   https://siliconhell.com/darksucker-theory/

 

Basic Principles

The basis of the dark sucker theory is that electric bulbs suck dark. Take, for example, the dark suckers in the room where you are. There is less dark right next to them than there is elsewhere. The larger the dark sucker, the greater it’s capacity to suck dark. For example, the large devices on a football pitch have a much greater capacity than the ones in this room.

 

Limitations

As with all things, dark suckers don’t last forever. Once they are full of dark, they can no longer suck. This is proven by the black spot on a full device. A candle is an example of a very primitive sucking device. A new candle has a white wick. You will notice that after the first use, the wick turns black, representing all the dark which has been sucked into it. If you hold a pencil next to the wick of an operating candle, the tip will turn black because it got in the path of the dark flowing into the candle.

 

Portability

Unfortunately, these primitive suckers have a very limited range. There are also portable anti-black devices. The bulbs in these can’t handle all of the dark by themselves and must be aided by a dark storage unit. A common example of this is your everyday rechargeable battery. When the dark storage unit is full, it must be either emptied or replaced before the portable dark sucker can operate again. This is achieved by simply recharging the battery. At an atomic level, this removes the dark from the battery. This, in turn, returns the battery to full power.

My brain now hurts. Remember electricity is just a theory.

[gearbasher]

Electricity comes from the power company, through the outlet, down your power cord and then back out though the neutral to the power company. It's all a scam they've been selling you the same electricity over and over since day one.

Edited August 7, 2023 by gearbasher