a les paul made in japan is better than one costing 4 times as much?

[S t e v e]

 

EBAY

[Duende]

 

EBAY

 

 

 

It could well be. Burny made in Japan quality is exceptional

 

Matt

 

 

[Guest FarnsBarns]

It has been "fitted" [sic] with a Gibson decal. Isn't that called trademark infringement?

[swleary]

Steve you should know the best Gibsons are made in China lmao

[dem00n]

Serious side of it:

 

There have been rumors that when Gibson was making guitars in Japan in the 90's, was that the Orville guitars were better than the current US Gibsons made at that time.

Also alot of people said that is the reason they stooped the MIJ production.

 

Either way, the guitars MIJ are some of the best. I do love the les paul copy's they make there.

[rct]

Played a buncha Orvilles. Don't believe the hype.

 

rct

[ne14t?]

70's Tokai's I think are the only ones that gave Gibson a real run for there money. Mostly because it was former Gibson employee's that started up Tokai and at the time there I don't believe there was much public knowledge on behalf of Gibson and Fender to realize they could trademark these guitar designs so people couldn't copy them. These were the "lawsuit" era guitars and if you ever want a cheap but high quality Les Paul the MIJ Tokai is probably the number one pick out there. I saw a vintage Tokai few months back on our local Craigslist for $500 it was an utterly beautiful guitar, looked exactly like a '59 reissue, to the point were it was kinda scary, same color burst and very high quality flame top. The same guitar new from Gibson would easily cost you $3000 to start let alone a vintage 70s one. I am sure the history and reputation of the Gibson name lends some factor into the cost of there product, but it is knows world wide. Almost everyone that see's my Gibson hard case always ask whats in it if they dont know, I always say Gibson products arent just an instrument but a piece of artwork as well.

[Duende]

I personally love MIJ guitars and love my Ibanez Prestige guitars......

 

Cheers to a fellow Japanese guitar fan :)

 

Matt

[ne14t?]

I personally love MIJ guitars and love my Ibanez Prestige guitars......

 

If they make them with as much care and detail as they did there swords, I would take one any day. Heck I want a high end Les Paul so much I might just buy a Tokai to be able to look at it when I wake up in the morning.

[swleary]

I've never owned a Japanese guitar or Korean...if you believe that, then I have some swamp land for sale lol

 

[Duende]

Well Cheers right back to ya Matt.

 

One thing for sure while many refuse to buy anything but MIA (Made in America) loads of MIJ (Made in Japan) guitars are better than many made in America guitars. I have a few old MIJ's RG550's that are unbelievable and

even after 20 plus years these guitars are still as nice as when I purchased them. I have a 32 year old Yamaha acoustic that is better than 90% of the acoustic guitars made costing under 1.5k and I didn't pay over 250.00 for it when I purchased it new....

 

I hear ya!! :)

 

I have 18 guitars and my favourite electrics are the Japanese ones. You just feel that every little detail has been crafted with ultimate care! The tone and playability...

 

I have a 1983 Squier JV series Strat and the sound is Woah!! Lol

 

Matt

[swleary]

Pretty SA, I have one with a lighter flame

 

That one there was a 2005 Ibanez SA 2020 Prestige. I think I paid just over $1000 for it. Played really nice with a great neck through. They only made that top for a year. Still wish I had it but at the time, I wanted to play bass so it went to help fund that.

[swleary]

yes they sure were a nice guitar, I miss mine.

[charlie brown]

I too, love my MIJ Epiophone '61 SG Standard, with Nitro finish,

and Gibson Headstock. They were only allowed to use that headstock

on Domestic (Non-exported) models. And, that agreement, with Gibson,

ran out, in 2006.

 

This guitar plays extremely well, is nicely made (solid mahogany, no

veneer), and sounds great, too. They were made in the same factory,

as the exported "Elitist" series. Great guitar!

 

 

 

 

CB

[SG FAN]

The Japanese copies CAN be better than genuine Gibsons, but not always. The Japanese are known to be great craftsmen.

[Silenced Fred]

Japanese guitars are awesome!

 

My next guitar is going to be a Japanese Fender Jazzmaster, just gotta swap out the pickups on those things, its just like a strat pickup, not the jazzmasters, but easily done

[BigKahune]

.

Just curious . . . .

 

Why would anyone that considers MIJ guitars superior bother wasting time and money on stuff made elsewhere, when they could be spending their time and money on tracking down all those awesome and superior MIJ guitars?

 

One could eventually put together a totally awesome set of MIJ Gibson knockoffs that are all better than anything Gibson can make.

 

Now that would be a awesome collection and would cost way less money than one would waste on real Gibsons!

 

That reminds my, I gotta order up one of the killer acoustics by Estaban.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tongue firmly in check . . . . LMAO . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

[retrosurfer1959]

That guitar is still a fake no matter what else you say about it. I have both an Orville an'd several Burny LP copies and they are good guitars maybe even very good for the price I paid. But they are not even in the same league of a Custom Shop or Reissue Gibson and as for Epiphone well There's only one recently that I Iiked enough to even keep and it's a Wilshire model made in the Gibson Custom Shop.

 

I can't decide if I think it's funny or just really sad how often people say that this whichever model copy or this Epiphone is just as good as any Gibson, well there not and they never have been. If you can't tell the difference in sound or even if you just can't afford a real Gibson one yet than fine play a copy and be happy but just stop trying to make everyone believe it's because it's actually better.

 

It's kind of like the Epiphone or even the Gibson Studio model owners and how the people that own only those models are alway's saying they chose it because it was the best sounding or that it's just as good as any reissue and then they say over and over "really it is, just listen to all my reasons".

 

Well the truth is it's not better and I have never heard anyone that owns a real Reissue or any high end Gibson that has ever said that, it's always somebody that owns a faded studio or a Epi model that's trying to convince themselves they chose it for any reason other than cost. It's just like when they explain how they swapped out all the electronics and wiring etc etc so now it's even better till not true you just polished the turd and now you have a crappy guitar with a lot of additional money spent on it it sounds better sure but it's still not gonna sound like a custom shop Gibson.

 

The made in Japan models are very good lower cost alternatives but they sure don't beat a custom shop and they never will.

[stein]

Easy RETRO, I agree with what you are saying but the part where you accuse all copies as being turds or crappy is also, way too far.

 

I AM an enthusiest of Japanese guitars and craftmanship, but as such, I can NOT make a blanket statement that they are superior or better than the American made origionals.

 

It certainly is not true that a Japanese made one made today will be better than one costing 4 times as much, The Japanese one of HIGH QUALITY will also be expensive. And when it comes to Fender copies and Gibson copies, that is actually 2 separate sciences when learning about Japanese made instruments.

 

And, just to derail the thread a little to the origional subject, THAT doesn't appear to be one of the "good" Burny's in the auction.

[Andy R]

That guitar is still a fake no matter what else you say about it. I have both an Orville an'd several Burny LP copies and they are good guitars maybe even very good for the price I paid. But they are not even in the same league of a Custom Shop or Reissue Gibson and as for Epiphone well There's only one recently that I Iiked enough to even keep and it's a Wilshire model made in the Gibson Custom Shop.

 

I can't decide if I think it's funny or just really sad how often people say that this whichever model copy or this Epiphone is just as good as any Gibson, well there not and they never have been. If you can't tell the difference in sound or even if you just can't afford a real Gibson one yet than fine play a copy and be happy but just stop trying to make everyone believe it's because it's actually better.

 

It's kind of like the Epiphone or even the Gibson Studio model owners and how the people that own only those models are alway's saying they chose it because it was the best sounding or that it's just as good as any reissue and then they say over and over "really it is, just listen to all my reasons".

 

Well the truth is it's not better and I have never heard anyone that owns a real Reissue or any high end Gibson that has ever said that, it's always somebody that owns a faded studio or a Epi model that's trying to convince themselves they chose it for any reason other than cost. It's just like when they explain how they swapped out all the electronics and wiring etc etc so now it's even better till not true you just polished the turd and now you have a crappy guitar with a lot of additional money spent on it it sounds better sure but it's still not gonna sound like a custom shop Gibson.

 

The made in Japan models are very good lower cost alternatives but they sure don't beat a custom shop and they never will.

 

 

Retro... with much respect....

 

I would say that I know "just a little" about guitars and have owned and played " a couple" through the years including high end US and MIJS. You're welcome to your opinion and I won't try to convince anyone of something they don't believe but IMHO there is as many quality built and not so great MIJ guitars as there are quality and not so great Guitars coming out of Gibson USA... It's a guitar... Wood, steel strings, etc.. add the variables in with luthiers from Japan and or luthier from USA and they will both make some incredible instruments and some that are not quite as great as you would expect.

 

I was trained by the late Japanese luthier Taku Sakashita and have worked with and for the Japanese in previous jobs ( have even been to Tokyo). I've yet to meet one Japanese person that isn't more critical of their own work along with an incredible work ethic . ( not that the Japanese slackers don't exist)

 

You also need to consider that there is a serious guitar market in japan and there are guys snatching up the best stuff as it comes out just like here.

 

So I will add a "respectfully disagree" with your blanket statement... and as I said we're all entitled to our opinions. Now I have shared mine...

 

Regards,

 

 

Andy

[jnastynebr]

 

 

 

Nice. I had one that was almost identical. Out of every guitar I have ever owned, I got more mileage out of my MIJ Epi SG than any Fender or Gibson. It was my #1 for amost five years, although my current Gibby will probably end up giving it a run for its money.

[Andy R]

One thing for sure this topic is always exciting and I respect all who have had experiences with MIA, MIJ, MIK, MIM, and MII guitars. I respectfully remind those who have the position just because it came out of a certain factory means its better. I would gladly put up my RG770, JEM or even my old RG550 and compare it to any MIA guitars as long as its apples to apples. I love my Gibsons for sure; and I love my Ibanez guitars also. In fact I actually have been looking at a few MIK PRS SE Guitars that are great guitars for sure.

 

Say what you want but when you compare quality, price point and even brand loyalty it all comes down to a person and his/her money. For those who just purchase one brand (any brand) and refuse to even try another then that type of short sighted attitude will for sure hurt the person since there are so many great guitars other than those coming out of factory "X". Just because a guitar is coming out of a American factory does not mean its the best around; on the flip side the same goes for Asian guitars. I purchased my first guitar in 1978 and my first electric was a Strat and I purchased that guitar around 1980. My first single cut away guitar was a Ibanez Les Paul copy (used) and this guitar was everything that a Gibson was and those at Gibson knew that also which is why Gibson took Ibanez to court. Ibanez beat Gibson at their own game and it scared the hell out of them since that was also the pancake years and quality control as a rule had fallen as did brand loyalty.

 

Well its been almost 40 years since the Ibanez Single Cutaway guitar gave Gibson a scare and this past year they released yet another. Granted this is a Indonesian guitar and their quality control (Ibanez) is still questionable although its still a decent guitar.

 

 

 

 

+1 Dude I agree

[stein]

This is getting deep...I see the brains are assembled, and I want in:

 

Looking a little deeper than just guitars, anyone who thinks the Chinese are not capable of a high standard of building and manufacture are in for a shock in the coming years. The quality we experience here in the US is limited by the prices laid out by the importers. Most of the tooling sold when the American factories went under were sent to China, and they know how to use them and make more. They also build jet fighters that compete on the world market, they have a stealth aircraft, and know enough about the technology to do successful corperate espianage. The idea that the Chinese CAN'T make a quality guitar if they wanted is dependent on who buys and sells, and what they choose to make, not ability.

 

As for the Japanese, besides certain talents and excellence that their culture possess, They also have some of the most rabid fans of American music and instruments that is at least as much as our own. When it comes to individual people who have advanced the knowledge of our own vintage instruments and what makes them special, many of them are Japanese. It might be true that more knowledge about the construction and magic of American instrument making is in Japan, but if it isn't, it is pretty close.

 

And, concerning that, the value of the US doller plays a big part. Finely crafted instruments don't just appear, they still take effort and care regardless of who makes them. The prices from the past of Japanese guitars was a result of the weak yen. They actually still make very accurate guitars, and make some of the best guitars, but a guitar made in Japan with the same effort as one made here will be just as much money, if not more.

[damian]

Beavers make great dams......with built in fish by-ways.....Just sayin'... :unsure: ...

[damian]

Interesting thread......I don't jump into these " what's better " threads much........

 

I DO understand fakes vs copies and both of those vs legit guitars that share LP and/or similar features........

 

Anyways, mass producing anything requires EXCELLENT quality control...My next high end guitar

 

will be a Carvin, as the quality control is better than the two " Leading Brands."

 

My Trident Preamp arrived today; Made in England; This reminded me that all English made products

 

are most excellent...Quality ingredients, quality workmanship, etc....Great evident manufacturing pride...

 

I place pride in workmanship quality over where it's made...I gotta say, the O.P. guitar is a forgery;

 

regardless of it's level of workmanship, it's a fake....