Bender 4 Life Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 it's a shame that my $400 Agile LP copy('08) arrived in better shape(flawless) than a lot of the new Gibbys i've seen. better fit & finish (yeah, I know it's poly) and better tone than several i've played. in Gibbys defense, my 7/10 SG Std arrived absolutely flawless, and even the setup was good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Eeeesh! Didin't anyone read the very first line in my post? "Just a general statement" It was right before the "It's a rarity to find a truly Flawless guitar part" There is nothing in my post that condones bad quality control or that it is acceptable. I worked in the Guitar manufacturing and Distribution industry and spent a great amount of time doing QC. I was the Final QC inspector before Guitars left our Facility. I would carefully inspect every guitar and Grade it. A = Ready to Ship B= Minor Issues ( wiring, missing screw, etc..) C = Moderate issues ( raised frets, finish scratches, loose binding, etc... ) and D ( Unrepairable problems without remanufacturing - wood and finish cracks etc..) So the "A" guitars would ship "B" guitars were fixed, QC'd again and shipped "C" Guitars were repaired, Re-inspected and shipped and "D" guitars were set aside for management to determine what they wanted to do with them. I wish I could say those D guitars were all destroyed or remanufactured but that was generally not the case.... They usually got a " hide it the best you can" treatment and off they went as well. Point being is it is probably not the persons doing QC who are deciding this. My guess is management and what they are wanting to force out the door everyday. Hell some of those guitars may not even see a Final QC process... Regarding "Flawless" I bet I could find some flaw in what 99% would say is "flawless" Metaphorically speaking "It just depends on how sensitive your microscope is" So on a final note Major and Obvious issues. poor craftsmanship etc.. I agree are unacceptable and shouldn't be tolerated or sent out in to the consumer world but the guy inspecting his guitar with a jewelers monocle will probably be disappointed too. If anyone is interested you should look up the "Code of Ethics" around building violins. It is a whole set of governing rules as to what is an acceptable instrument for use in schools and study .It also gets into the difference in value if a master luthier made an instrument or what level his apprentice was that made it. Very interesting and probably something that should be a part of the guitar world. My 2 C's Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I've had Fender & Gibson guitars for years but it seem Colling's & Taylor guitar quality is much better in today's market. I just bought this one and have another one the way. <Snipped photos> What - - - - - are you advertising for Collings and Taylor? . . . Bad form with the pics. Save 'em for some other thread. . <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Well, ultimately, any mass produced product is going to have some "turkeys" in there. The Auto Industry, is notorious, for this, as well. Domestic, or Off-shore builders. It's ultimately up to us, to stop buying those, and/or hold the companies accountable. If they aren't, or won't be accountable, they will eventually lose money/reputation! NO company wants to do THAT! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S t e v e Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 i think pre-owned gibsons from the better yrs are the way forward at the mo, i won't be buying new till gibson sort themselves out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Charlie, do you think logic has anything to do with this????I think the whole thing is kinda like a dysfunctional relationship between Gibson and its customers. LOL...yeah, I know! I'm constantly amazed/dismayed, at that very fact/idea. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 And they say you can't go home again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lungimsam Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 My new SG Bass had a bad neck pup that had to be replaced. However, I think within 5 days Gibson had the new pup out to the auth serv guy and I had it back in my hands in no time. So the warranty sevce was perfect for me. The thing that gets me is that people have had a lot of trouble with their bass bridges, and Gibson hasen't designed a new type bridge that eliminates the problems. I just don't understand why they keep putting out the same bridges when they have posed problems, as far as I understand, since the '60's. You would think they would have come up with a workable bridge years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I guess some of the comments here really have me scratching my head. I can feature a lotta problems, but not all the problems that are mentioned here make sense for being a factory problem with QC, but something later in the chain. E.g., scratched pickguards. Don't most have a little layer of saranwrap or a heavier equivalent when new from the factory? Who supposes the factory has somebody playing the heck out of a guitar and then putting it into a shipping box? Ditto bent tuning machines, etc., and even certain types of finish or wood "flaws." I dunno how much of this is Gibson, how much is in the retain chain, and how much is messing with Gibson customer service guys on here. I also wonder how much the federal theft - oops, confiscation? - of a lotta Gibson materials has affected the whole corporation operation the past cupla years. Then add the effect of the flood that shut down the Nashville operation. Yet I think if there are substandard materials and wiring - one might wonder the degree to which it's frustrated or angry employees or lousy QC - or someone in the retail chain engaged in sabotage or protecting his/her own position. As I said, I dunno. But I'm cynical about motives all the way through this one. Maybe that's a professional habit of mine, but Andy has noted cynicism about the in-factory stuff on a less expensive brand and it may be similar at Gibson. A lessened set of margins courtesy of lawsuits and the flood might have lent itself to lessened standards, especially the last cupla years. That is possible. OTOH, it also seems as if Gibbie as a corporation is also under attack by certain individuals and groups that might have motivation to damage the corporation regardless of jobs there - or perhaps to make changes in the management and work force structure. E.g., anybody wanna buy a product made by union labor in the week or two prior to an inevitable and more or less scheduled strike? Who led the feds into their "investigation" and with what motives? BTW, I also don't blame Gibson for working toward what might appear viable high tech versions of guitars. Like it or not, tech will be an increasing factor in our lives, as it seems also that the lessening of quality of woods seems inevitable. If Gibbie or other companies don't hit a "killer ap," well, neither have a lot of bigger companies with their versions of emerging technology. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I'm sure there's a lot of truth, there, Milod! The observations I've made, on here, are my own (personal) experiences, and observations. And, in a few instances, what my dealer has mentioned, with no malice, toward Gibson, at all. Just the facts. There's no doubt, Gibson has taken some "hits," the last 2 years. Especially, the Flood! Couple that, with the Raids, and some recorded strain, between management, and employees, and there's bound to be something lost, or amiss, somewhere. Still, the final products, should be "spot on," regardless. I think, in all fairness to Gibson, the majoriety of instruments shipped, are just fine! One always hears about, the "bad" ones, especially here. (Smile) I have reported, some (under finish) flaws (poor sanding, or filling?), on even some CS models...R6 & R7's, in one store I was in, before. So, even CS guitars aren't immune, seemingly. ;>b But, I'm still a Gibson fan, and enjoy every "Gibby" I own, immensely! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluzhammer Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I'm joining the conversation late , but it here goes ; P..........R.........S. If you want to buy a quality American made guitar look no further, I realize the USA line is pricey for some. Truth is I have never played a bad one. I recently played a Custom 22 at the local GC that had been on the wall for 2 years and it was still perfectly intonated and had zero issues with the neck. Find a dealer that's carrying the Collings line up, they are quality built also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryUK Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I've put this here before. But how did this get out of the factory? It makes you think that there's a lot of messing about and someone doesn't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 . When there's a Gibson QC discussion, why do some members post advertisements for other companies? Most members here are aware of and own guitars from other manufacturers. No need to advertise. Check the OP - the topic on this thread is Gibson quality. . <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sellen Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 . When there's a Gibson QC discussion, why do some members post advertisements for other companies? Most members here are aware of and own guitars from other manufacturers. No need to advertise. Check the OP - the topic on this thread is Gibson quality. . <_< +1 and i think it's got a bit negative to, there's been a lot of happy guys posting their 2010-2011 les paul - sg - es. But they should get up the standard a bit on qc. It's a common thing, as a welder i have to sharpen my QC standard sometimes then i get sloppy and have to get better again. It's the human nature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluzhammer Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 . When there's a Gibson QC discussion, why do some members post advertisements for other companies? Most members here are aware of and own guitars from other manufacturers. No need to advertise. Check the OP - the topic on this thread is Gibson quality. . <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluzhammer Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Wasn't an advertisement, just sayin ..,,, point is if your not satisfied try other brands . I ain't hatin, just stating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S t e v e Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 i just read an interview with henry CEO in this months "guitarist" mag...i feel my confidence in gibson returning, go buy the mag...read the interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I haven't found any of the QC problems in my Gibsons. Maybe they're there but I can't see them because the guitars kicks-butt. And if they are there, they must be practically invisible. Can't really recall seeing these QC problems at Guitar Center or Mountain Music Shoppe when it was open, although the Gibsons might have all been loaded with them. Gibsons currently at my GC are very nice. So are the Taylors, aside from sounding bright and sparkly.. The Martins, aside from the cheaper ones also look pretty good. The problems I see with guitars at Guitar Center are that they get beat-to-death by the some of the customers, they are carried around by 4-5 year-old kids while dad plays somewhere else in the store, they're left lying on the floor or leaning against a door and in-general are often handled very roughly. Any guitar that's been on-the-floor at GC for more than a couple weeks is at risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Missouri... Right on about the little kids. The closest guitar store to me has the same problem. Store folks are afraid to defend the guitars 'cuz it's nowadays considered appropriate to let kids run wild. Sheesh. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flight959 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Nothing wrong with my Gibson's... Regards Jack! P.S Pull the ladder up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lungimsam Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I love my Gibsons and I have always liked Gibson. Things will slip by for whatever reason. So customer service is what then counts. I was treated very well by Gibson when it was needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enmitygauged Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I will say that there is an obvious difference between my ES-335 "custom" and my LP Jr Special Exclusive in quality which you would expect, But my Standard LP is of no different quality that the 335. I knew when I bought the Jr that it had issues. I noted the issues with the store before I took it. That the Ebony finger board was dry and looked chalky like if you played it you'd scrape it to nothing in a week. the body top of the guitar is like a roller coaster with divots and rises all over the place. and the bridge is resting right on the deck giving fret buzz whilst playing any chord in the first few fret positions. Even though its a cheaper end guitar it still should be better than a cheaper end Epiphone. I have an epiphone Jr and that kills this in quality. I bought it simply for its sound I reasoned how it looked on the body was irrelevant as it really came down to how it sounded. The finger board was fixed with some lemon oil and the bridge will be re set in the next week. the body doesnt really bother me. As the Buddhists say. do not worry about the things you can not change. there is no point worrying over things you have no control over, instead concentrate on the things you can change for they are within your capabilities and therefore deserve no stress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I've put this here before. But how did this get out of the factory? It makes you think that there's a lot of messing about and someone doesn't care. Isn't that the new Gold Top "Road Worn" Series I like it. Finish is overrated. Maybe it was a little Over QC'd by the fat guy with big man boobs? He is probably still wondering why his shirt is half gold.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SG FAN Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I post a serious question and i get stupid answers. I'm starting to see why people stop posting here. Yup, me too, Dem00n. Me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 If I was Gibson I'd appreciate the help. If my performance as a guitar player starts to slip I hope someone would say, "Dude, what happened? You used to be better". Specially if they can site example of my deterioration. I'd take it as a compliment, like saying "You're better than this and I know it". Of people were saying "That's Gibson for ya, they've always sucked", that would be an insult. What I'm hearing is concern for a beloved Icon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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