GC facing bankruptcy?

[jaxson50]

If history teaches us anything it is this,

The CEO will get a ungodly sum of money for mis managing the business,  all the employees will get screwed out of any IRAs or 401Ks they may have and  the tax payer will be left holding the bag

[fortyearspickn]

22 hours ago, jaxson50 said:

If history teaches us anything it is this,

The CEO will get a ungodly sum of money for mis managing the business,  all the employees will get screwed out of any IRAs or 401Ks they may have and  the tax payer will be left holding the bag

If your employer provides you with an investment in HIS company as a form of a retirement benefit - you should diversify.  You already have invested in his company by working there. 

[Larsongs]

3 minutes ago, ghost_of_fl said:

I don't think it works that way.  IRAs and 401Ks are just investment accounts.  They are not tied to the company other than the company being able to deposit funds into the account. 

Every IRA and 401k I've been a part of over the years required that I choose where to invest those funds.  Plenty of non publically traded companies offer investment accounts. 

I think he meant Pension Fund.. Not IRA...

[jaxson50]

2 hours ago, ghost_of_fl said:

I don't think it works that way.  IRAs and 401Ks are just investment accounts.  They are not tied to the company other than the company being able to deposit funds into the account. 

Every IRA and 401k I've been a part of over the years required that I choose where to invest those funds.  Plenty of non publically traded companies offer investment accounts. 

Mg point is,  the people who run the business into the ground with poor management always walk away with pockets full of cash, while the employees get the kicked to the curb. 

Look at GM, when the CEO tanked that company  they received a huge cash buyout, the US taxpayer was forced by the Obama administration to buy the company,  when the company started to turn around did a single tax payer get a dividend yield from the investment we were forced into? 

Nope. 

GC has been facing financial crisis for the past 6 years , so what happened? Banks gave them more credit.  I believe the CEO should have been kicked to the curb when his mismanagement was first exposed.  No golden parachute,  just go sign up for unemployment benefits like the rest of us peons are forced to do.  Fire his ads, get someone in there to turn it around 6 years ago.   If you fail you don't deserve a cash reward.

[rct]

1 hour ago, jaxson50 said:

GC has been facing financial crisis for the past 6 years , so what happened? Banks gave them more credit.

 

Nope.  The creditors exchanged debt for equity.  You can only do that so many times before the creditor owns the company.  Like, well, Gibson Guitars frinstance.

rct

[gdecantoo]

4 hours ago, jaxson50 said:

Mg point is,  the people who run the business into the ground with poor management always walk away with pockets full of cash, while the employees get the kicked to the curb. 

Look at GM, when the CEO tanked that company  they received a huge cash buyout, the US taxpayer was forced by the Obama administration to buy the company,  when the company started to turn around did a single tax payer get a dividend yield from the investment we were forced into? 

Nope. 

GC has been facing financial crisis for the past 6 years , so what happened? Banks gave them more credit.  I believe the CEO should have been kicked to the curb when his mismanagement was first exposed.  No golden parachute,  just go sign up for unemployment benefits like the rest of us peons are forced to do.  Fire his ads, get someone in there to turn it around 6 years ago.   If you fail you don't deserve a cash reward.

A few big banks with their creative financing caused the housing and stock market crisis and people stopped buying cars. This in turn caused GM to tank, not the CEO. Did the taxpayers get a personal dividend check deposited in their accounts? No. I believe all monies borrowed were paid back though.

  How is this any different than today? Big corporations begging for taxpayer money during a pandemic crisis. For some reason it's ok now?

Billionaires and big banks new what was coming in 2008 because they created it. Was it a coincidence Bush suggested we invest SSI money in the stock market just before the crash? 

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by gdecant1

[Retired]

On 10/27/2020 at 9:20 AM, jaxson50 said:

If history teaches us anything it is this,

The CEO will get a ungodly sum of money for mis managing the business,  all the employees will get screwed out of any IRAs or 401Ks they may have and  the tax payer will be left holding the bag

Thats usually what happens. I was at Union Pacific RR when they closed the Omaha Shops. There was a lot of crooked dealings going on during that one. It's all about money. 

[jaxson50]

10 hours ago, gdecant1 said:

A few big banks with their creative financing caused the housing and stock market crisis and people stopped buying cars. This in turn caused GM to tank, not the CEO. Did the taxpayers get a personal dividend check deposited in their accounts? No. I believe all monies borrowed were paid back though.

  How is this any different than today? Big corporations begging for taxpayer money during a pandemic crisis. For some reason it's ok now?

Billionaires and big banks new what was coming in 2008 because they created it. Was it a coincidence Bush suggested we invest SSI money in the stock market just before the crash? 

 

There is  a difference between covid19 stimulus checks and out right bail outs. 

But I want to address one of your points directly, because it shows just how the US taxpayer has become numb to getting ripped off. 

You said, paraphrasing here, the while no citizen received a dividend from the GM bail out the money was repaid. 

Repaid to whom?  It was our money!, Yours and mine and every other tax payers.  We saw the same thing with the Chrysler bail out, Lee Iacocca paid back the 2 billion in two years. But it was still our money, taken from our pockets, placed into his hands by a middleman,  the GOVERNMENT,  who was then repaid and KEPT IT. 

We was scammed! And like most Americans you believe you got a good deal because Chrysler is still around. Even though it has been bought and sold twice since then and we still haven't seen any pay back for our contribution to the entire transaction.  

Don't even get me started on bankruptcy and the ripoff that is to the taxpayer. 

Edited October 29, 2020 by jaxson50

['Scales]

The retained American citizen workers at GM and Chrysler and their families, and the those of their mass of supplier companies, dealers etc benefitted no?

[gdecantoo]

We are about 180 degrees apart Jaxson! I see the stimulus money to big corporations as an outright bailout as it will not be repaid. On the other hand the GM loans were just that, loans. In exchange for the the loans we received equity in the company. Just like a loan on a house or a bankruptcy at GC. The bank owns it until they get their money back. 

Repaid to whom? It was repaid to the entity that loaned it to them, us! Should we have loaned it to them? Debatable yes. I personally thought it was the right move at the time. My outrage was more focused on the greedy rich bastards trying to get richer that created the whole mess in the first place! 

When the bank loans YOUR money in a savings account to a struggling company do you expect a cut of the 15% interest they charge or equity in the company, other than the 0.8% they give you?

 

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by gdecant1

['Scales]

25 minutes ago, gdecant1 said:

When the bank loans YOUR money in a savings account to a struggling company do you expect a cut of the 15% interest they charge or equity in the company, other than the 0.8% they give you?

 

 

I don't belive money you put in the bank is YOUR money actually....as I understand it you are actually giving it to them as an unsecured loan for which they pay you interest. you hope they honour their commitment to pay you interest and return your loaned principal to you on demand or at an agreed date.  If they go under your hopes are dashed (unless the govt steps in with loan guarantees for depositors).

Also, the money they loan others at 15% is not your money either, it's pulled out of thin air...a privilege of banks alone.

[gdecantoo]

“A privilege of banks alone”! Yea, banks suck! Like loaning a neighbor your lawnmower. It’s still yours but they are using it in their yard to cut whatever they want! You can only hope they give it it back when you ask for it! Or even worse, they file lawnmower bankruptcy! They return it broken with no value😁

['Scales]

I know...my neighbour broke my lawnmower last weekend. Sucks like a bank!

[kidblast]

I can't believe this company is still opened for bizz,, they've been circling the drain for well over 10 years.

[badbluesplayer]

Want to fret about a real ripoff?  Capital Gains tax rates.  If people understood how they work everybody would have a heart attack and we'd all die and then the rich guys wouldn't have any customers left.

[jaxson50]

43 minutes ago, badbluesplayer said:

Want to fret about a real ripoff?  Capital Gains tax rates.  If people understood how they work everybody would have a heart attack and we'd all die and then the rich guys wouldn't have any customers left.

I agree 100%! 

After we pay income tax on our earnings what we do with our money is our own business and of no concern ofbthe government!

The basic principle of capitalism is to acquire capital,  we should not be punished for pursuing that goal.

[jaxson50]

5 hours ago, gdecant1 said:

We are about 180 degrees apart Jaxson! I see the stimulus money to big corporations as an outright bailout as it will not be repaid. On the other hand the GM loans were just that, loans. In exchange for the the loans we received equity in the company. Just like a loan on a house or a bankruptcy at GC. The bank owns it until they get their money back. 

Repaid to whom? It was repaid to the entity that loaned it to them, us! Should we have loaned it to them? Debatable yes. I personally thought it was the right move at the time. My outrage was more focused on the greedy rich bastards trying to get richer that created the whole mess in the first place! 

When the bank loans YOUR money in a savings account to a struggling company do you expect a cut of the 15% interest they charge or equity in the company, other than the 0.8% they give you?

 

 

The government didn't loan money to GM, the government bought GM. Then sold it at gain. 

1. If a private entity did this they would pay capital gains tax.  The government is exempt from paying taxes.

2,  The government doesn't have money, it takes money away from its citizens.

BTW  I wasn't in favor of stimulus going to "big business "  

[Sgt. Pepper]

The US Government is and are the biggest bunch of crooks in the entire world, and can get away with it.

[jaxson50]

7 hours ago, 'Scales said:

The retained American citizen workers at GM and Chrysler and their families, and the those of their mass of supplier companies, dealers etc benefitted no?

If that is the concern why did we allow AMC and Hudson,  and Cord to go under? 

[Mr. Gibson]

2 hours ago, badbluesplayer said:

Want to fret about a real ripoff?  Capital Gains tax rates.  If people understood how they work everybody would have a heart attack and we'd all die and then the rich guys wouldn't have any customers left.

Capital gains is the biggest ripoff, I bought land with money I paid tax on,can't write it off because land doesn't depreciate, but if I sell it I pay capital gains.

[jaxson50]

1 hour ago, jaxson50 said:

The government didn't loan money to GM, the government bought GM. Then sold it at a gain. As a side note. The government did something no other buyer could do. They forgave debt held by GM. 

 

1. If a private entity did this they would pay capital gains tax.  The government is exempt from paying taxes.

2,  The government doesn't have money, it takes money away from its citizens.

BTW  I wasn't in favor of stimulus going to "big business "  

 

[gdecantoo]

1 hour ago, Mr. Gibson said:

Capital gains is the biggest ripoff, I bought land with money I paid tax on,can't write it off because land doesn't depreciate, but if I sell it I pay capital gains.

Here’s how you do it. Plant crops. Let the cows in. They eat all your crops. Use the lost crops as a tax write off. Not only did they eat all your crops they pooped all over the place and devalued the land. Plow the land and get a tax write off for remediating  the pollution and repeat next year!  Never pay taxes again! Might work!😁

Edited October 29, 2020 by gdecant1

['Scales]

You guys in the US don't pay capital gains tax on your home do you?

[Sgt. Pepper]

3 minutes ago, 'Scales said:

You guys in the US don't pay capital gains tax on your home do you?

If you make over a certain amount when you sell it, we sure do. I remember learning in History class that the US broke away form England to get away from taxes, and now that is all they want us to do.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Sgt. Pepper

['Scales]

Just now, Sgt. Pepper said:

If you make over a certain amount when yo sell it, we sure do.

Interesting. Here it's only on investments, not you place of residence. Rationale is that investments are a business and its treated as realised income from that business in the year you sell and CGT is actually income tax for that year - albeit with bix tax reductions if you've held the investment more than 12 months. If you have capital losses they can offset the gains.

i believe you (in US) can deduct home loan interest payments against income tax though (we cannot for our homes, but can for investments - we get no tax breaks relating to our homes) so maybe that's part of the trade offs?