rct Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, Larsongs said: It doesn’t say it’s a 2023.. The change doesn’t include 2022’s.. More like current new 2023 listings like this Link.. Note Top is Spruce (Generic).. Neck is Hard Wood (Generic).. How far this will go is anybodies guess? https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MD28--martin-d-28-natural?mrkgadid=3340986413&mrkgcl=28&mrkgen=mtext&mrkgbflag=0&mrkgcat=guitars&acctid=21700000001645388&dskeywordid=43700046748101510&lid=43700046748101510&ds_s_kwgid=58700005283303361&ds_a_cid=405527921&ds_a_caid=9232957646&ds_a_agid=97366328121&ds_a_lid=kwd-297523261641&device=c&network=o&matchtype=e&adpos=largenumber&locationid=43834&creative=&targetid=kwd-78409163265390:loc-4084&campaignid=283630933&awsearchcpc=1&&msclkid=996e3ca3ad8913bd0b355f141ccaaf1e&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=aaText - Guitars - Acoustic Guitars - [EXACT]&utm_term=martin d28&utm_content=Acoustic Guitars - 6-string Acoustic Guitars - Martin - MD28 SKU&gclid=996e3ca3ad8913bd0b355f141ccaaf1e&gclsrc=3p.ds The specs are right there. "Select Hardwood" means what it has always meant: If not specified as mahogany the neck is cedar. Buying a Martin is no different than all the "research" everyone does to buy a Gibson. If you don't know or don't want to know how to do it, don't do it. Jesus H. you are crapping your pants because they are using the same language for the necks they have always used, and your favorite retailer writes what they want in the sales drivel. I can't believe I bother with this stupids hit. rct Edited January 6, 2023 by rct 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 1 hour ago, Sgt. Pepper said: You had me at HD-28 until you typed E. No electronics are allowed in my acoustics. Not even those Fishman or LR Baggs units they put in many models? Whitefang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 7 minutes ago, Whitefang said: Not even those Fishman or LR Baggs units they put in many models? Whitefang Um . . . my acoustic are acoustic. If I wanted to plug in I'd get a Strat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 5 minutes ago, ghost_of_fl said: Sometimes when I look at a really nice Martin, I get hardwood. 😳 Only select though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 11 minutes ago, rct said: The specs are right there. "Select Hardwood" means what it has always meant: If not specified as mahogany the neck is cedar. Buying a Martin is no different than all the "research" everyone does to buy a Gibson. If you don't know or don't want to know how to do it, don't do it. Jesus H. you are crapping your pants because they are using the same language for the necks they have always used, and your favorite retailer writes what they want in the sales drivel. I can't believe I bother with this stupids hit. rct Once again it's just a b-itching point to credit how great the guitars from Bozeman are, and to discredit the guitars made in Nazareth. Yet some who want spec sheets own both flavors? Strange? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted January 6, 2023 Author Share Posted January 6, 2023 1 hour ago, Sgt. Pepper said: Once again it's just a b-itching point to credit how great the guitars from Bozeman are, and to discredit the guitars made in Nazareth. Yet some who want spec sheets own both flavors? Strange? No, that’s not what I’m doing.. I expect USA Martin, Gibson, Guild & Fender to be outstanding when it comes to Quality, Customer Service & Purchase Experience.. They all claim to have the best & be the best.. Providing something as simple as a Spec Sheet along with the Pile of Case Candy they already include(most of which is unnecessary) is not an absurd request.. Martin has indeed provided Specs in the past.. Whether Brazilian, East Indian, Madagascar Etc.. Necks we’re also Spec’d as Mahogany or whatever it was.. As were Fretboards, Ebony or whatever else.. In 2019 I played just about every new Martin Acoustic available at the time at the Winter NAMM Show.. Many didn’t have the Volute.. D-28’s included.. The Volute may strengthen the Neck but it doesn’t work for me.. Is it really necessary or a gimmick? I don’t know? I’ve had several Gibsons, Martins & Epiphones Acoustics over the past 50 years without Volute’s & they’re all just fine.. No issues! The over defensiveness about someone wanting to know the Specs for Guitars seems laughable on a Forum dedicated to talking about Guitars! LOL!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Larsongs said: No, that’s not what I’m doing.. I expect USA Martin, Gibson, Guild & Fender to be outstanding when it comes to Quality, Customer Service & Purchase Experience.. They all claim to have the best & be the best.. Providing something as simple as a Spec Sheet along with the Pile of Case Candy they already include(most of which is unnecessary) is not an absurd request.. Martin has indeed provided Specs in the past.. Whether Brazilian, East Indian, Madagascar Etc.. Necks we’re also Spec’d as Mahogany or whatever it was.. As were Fretboards, Ebony or whatever else.. In 2019 I played just about every new Martin Acoustic available at the time at the Winter NAMM Show.. Many didn’t have the Volute.. D-28’s included.. The Volute may strengthen the Neck but it doesn’t work for me.. Is it really necessary or a gimmick? I don’t know? I’ve had several Gibsons, Martins & Epiphones Acoustics over the past 50 years without Volute’s & they’re all just fine.. No issues! The over defensiveness about someone wanting to know the Specs for Guitars seems laughable on a Forum dedicated to talking about Guitars! LOL!!! Once again I'm gonna be a nice guy and give out free advice. Don't buy the damn D-45 if you can have a piece of paper accompanying it. Martin, Gibson and Guild are not best. Best is whats best for you. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The BEST guitar, IMHO, I ever played was a Preston Thompson D-18 clone (I think it was called a D-1A), I played at Carters Vintage. But it was 5k if I recall correctly. My D-41 was a stellar guitar, but it was so damn nice I didn't even want people to breath on it. So I traded it for a HD-28V and cash. I was playing my 000-18 yesterday with binding intact and no spec sheet and it sounded really good to my ignorant ears. I'm done with this thread. I'll let others praise you and give you trophies for the piece of paper you insist on having, which I'm sure like I stated Martin will probably provide if asked. Edited January 6, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 1 hour ago, Larsongs said: The over defensiveness about someone wanting to know the Specs for Guitars seems laughable on a Forum dedicated to talking about Guitars! LOL!!! I would be all over it if even half of what you are claiming were true. Nobody is denying anybody anywhere any of the specs on any Martin guitar. Again, the neck wording has been that for a very long time. For the last time, I will directly ask you Lars: Where did you get this "fact" that CFMartin is not providing specs for "new guitars", whatever that means? Where did this come from? And before you tell me you didn't this and you didn't that, before you go back and edit it, here is a direct quote your first post in this thread, the one that started it all: From Lars, first post: I recently bought a Martin HD-28E.. It was a great Guitar but I just didn’t bond with it.. I was still looking for a D-28, But, now, Martin has decided not to provide Specs for their Guitars.. They aren’t going to provide Materials for Bodies, Fretboards & other Parts of their new Guitars.. I want to know what I’m buying. Especially if I’m paying $3,000.00 or more! They will be using different Woods but not say what it is? You don’t know what you’re spending your Money on.. Doesn’t seem smart to me! See Link. https://www.maurysmusic.com/maury_s_blog/view/208115/martin_guitars___the_use_of_sitka_spruce_in_2022 End Lars quote. And the link is to the fact, a fact that has been going on for quite some time now with this thing called Sitka, that they'll use different language for the tops. Help me out buddy. I want to be angry too, I want a nice hot cup of outrage too. Where is this all coming from? Where did you come up with no specs for new Martins? rct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 12 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said: If I was working on my Masters Degree that would be a good thesis. For my docudrama I would insist that Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson play the part of 40 Years Pickin (hasn't he been picking alot longer now?). He would be perfect for the roll. And in this killer docudrama when The Rock, portraying you, goes into Guitar Center to play the most expensive Gibson, and nails the opening riff to Smoke On The Water, he would give that sideways look he's know for. The people at home watching would just love it. Then he would met the girl of his dreams, they would date, they would have a misunderstanding, and break up, she would find out from her best friend it was just a misunderstanding, they would get back together, and they would marry. I should see if I can pitch that to the Hallmark Channel, so they can use that scenario for one of their hour long movies. Scratch the docudrama, even Hallmark has standards. You should just start up your own Think Tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, fortyearspickn said: Scratch the docudrama, even Hallmark has standards. You should just start up your own Think Tank. I could see if Ru Paul is interested in your part. That’s more like you. Edited January 7, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted January 7, 2023 Author Share Posted January 7, 2023 rct my friend, My other Sources Customer Service Martin Guitars who I called & spoke to.. As of 2023 Due to availability of Woods, or lack thereof, they won’t necessarily be specified like they used to be.. Whether it’s Sitka, Adirondack, Brazilian, East Indian, Madagascar etc. They reserve the right to not designate the name or origin of Mahogany, Spruce or other Wood.. Also Martin Models that appeared prior to 1963 had Volutes which had nothing to do with strengthening the Necks. It was purely decorative… The D-35 appeared after 1963 & doesn’t have the Volute.. My other Source was my Rep of 15 years from Sweetwater.. The biggest Guitar Store in America… Again, I still think Martin will build some very fine Premium Guitars but they can do a better job when it comes to a Premium Purchase Experience… Again, I find it bizarre & laughable that guys on a Guitar Forum dedicated to discussing Guitars are so over defensive against the concept of Guitar buying Customer's wanting to know what their, $2,000, $3000, $4000 or more Guitars are made of.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 8 hours ago, Larsongs said: rct my friend, My other Sources Customer Service Martin Guitars who I called & spoke to.. As of 2023 Due to availability of Woods, or lack thereof, they won’t necessarily be specified like they used to be.. Whether it’s Sitka, Adirondack, Brazilian, East Indian, Madagascar etc. They reserve the right to not designate the name or origin of Mahogany, Spruce or other Wood.. Also Martin Models that appeared prior to 1963 had Volutes which had nothing to do with strengthening the Necks. It was purely decorative… The D-35 appeared after 1963 & doesn’t have the Volute.. My other Source was my Rep of 15 years from Sweetwater.. The biggest Guitar Store in America… Again, I still think Martin will build some very fine Premium Guitars but they can do a better job when it comes to a Premium Purchase Experience… Again, I find it bizarre & laughable that guys on a Guitar Forum dedicated to discussing Guitars are so over defensive against the concept of Guitar buying Customer's wanting to know what their, $2,000, $3000, $4000 or more Guitars are made of.. Ok well we'll just look at CFMartin page occasionally and look for specs, specific specs. If by some point this year they still are then... rct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 8 hours ago, Larsongs said: Again, I find it bizarre & laughable that guys on a Guitar Forum dedicated to discussing Guitars are so over defensive against the concept of Guitar buying Customer's wanting to know what their, $2,000, $3000, $4000 or more Guitars are made of.. Don't confuse them with facts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted January 7, 2023 Author Share Posted January 7, 2023 30 minutes ago, Murph said: Don't confuse them with facts... I mentioned my Sources.. So unless they’re lying I don’t think I’m confusing them with facts.. Quite the opposite.. I want the facts. You can look at the new 2023 Martin Specs on Sweetwater, the biggest Guitar Store in America, or whoever & you can read it! Necks used say Mahogany & Tops would specify what kind of Spruce.. New 2023’s Necks are Hardwood & Tops are Spruce… I’m not exactly sure what facts you’re referring to.. You all are welcome to source the facts yourselve’s… Like Gibson, & other Guitar Makers Websites, they are seldom up to date & lack much of the documented information about their discontinued, recent or even their newest current Models… That, for sure, isn’t new….. I think we’ve beat this subject to death! People will believe what they want to believe.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted January 7, 2023 Author Share Posted January 7, 2023 45 minutes ago, Murph said: Don't confuse them with facts... Guys don’t discuss Guitars here? LOL… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, Larsongs said: I’m not exactly sure what facts you’re referring to.. I'm on your side. I think you're right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 9 hours ago, Larsongs said: rct my friend, My other Sources Customer Service Martin Guitars who I called & spoke to.. As of 2023 Due to availability of Woods, or lack thereof, they won’t necessarily be specified like they used to be.. Whether it’s Sitka, Adirondack, Brazilian, East Indian, Madagascar etc. They reserve the right to not designate the name or origin of Mahogany, Spruce or other Wood.. Also Martin Models that appeared prior to 1963 had Volutes which had nothing to do with strengthening the Necks. It was purely decorative… The D-35 appeared after 1963 & doesn’t have the Volute.. My other Source was my Rep of 15 years from Sweetwater.. The biggest Guitar Store in America… Again, I still think Martin will build some very fine Premium Guitars but they can do a better job when it comes to a Premium Purchase Experience… Again, I find it bizarre & laughable that guys on a Guitar Forum dedicated to discussing Guitars are so over defensive against the concept of Guitar buying Customer's wanting to know what their, $2,000, $3000, $4000 or more Guitars are made of.. Dude - You've been grinding along about this for like ten posts. Maybe you need to be eduacated about what "specifications"means. I can help, but something tells me you don't need any help. I'll bet that you probably know what "specifications" means, too. "Select Hardwood" is a specification. If you don't think so, you need to hire somebody that you trust to tell you. But you won't, 'cause you know exactly what I'm talking about, but you're being a dichhead. If you knew what you were talking about, you'd'a said it like "Select Hardwood isn't a specific enough term for me." That's different. If you can't tell the difference, go hire somebody you trust to educate you on what a specification is. Who really has to be told what a specification is, anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 spec·i·fi·ca·tion /ˌspesəfəˈkāSH(ə)n/ noun 1.an act of describing or identifying something precisely or of stating a precise requirement:"give a full specification of the job advertised"Similarstatement, stating, naming, identification, definition, ... more Powered by Oxford Dictionaries Whitefang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 58 minutes ago, badbluesplayer said: Maybe you need to be eduacated Seriously.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryNimda Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Larsongs said: I mentioned my Sources.. So unless they’re lying I don’t think I’m confusing them with facts.. Quite the opposite.. I want the facts. You can look at the new 2023 Martin Specs on Sweetwater, the biggest Guitar Store in America, or whoever & you can read it! Necks used say Mahogany & Tops would specify what kind of Spruce.. New 2023’s Necks are Hardwood & Tops are Spruce… I’m not exactly sure what facts you’re referring to.. You all are welcome to source the facts yourselve’s… Like Gibson, & other Guitar Makers Websites, they are seldom up to date & lack much of the documented information about their discontinued, recent or even their newest current Models… That, for sure, isn’t new….. I think we’ve beat this subject to death! People will believe what they want to believe.. I read it too. There was a link somewhere and the date was recent. So it is not "fake news" in any way or form. For a manufacturer it's the proper thing to do, to inform their customers of any policy change. So it's a WIN-WIN for everybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bill Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 ...at least you guys are butting heads about guitars. 🥳 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFord Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 I recall Matty Umanov saying there's only two types of acoustic guitars: Gibson and Martin. I would think anyone who likes the Martin sound would be more apt to purchase say, a Collins, than a Gibson if they were looking for an alternative. For my own guitars, if they say spruce, rosewood, ebony and select hardwoods I say that's nice, long as it's not Richlite I'll take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 I agree completely Steve: most of us are less finicky. - like me, I suppose, priding myself with normal levels of finickiness. But, the fact remains, Martin created a market for themselves to sell Really Expensive guitars - priced way above their Mexican ones and their best sellers around $3-4K. And the people who buy them (other than those dentists and cardiologists Sgt.Pepper warns us about every week) are 'cork sniffers'. They want to know if the RW is from Madagascar or India or a stump in Brazil or was sunk in a river somewhere exotic. And if you're paying premium bucks - say $10K - it is no longer because you're a fan boy. It's because you want to know (to be able to brag, yes - but to RE-SELL ) exactly what kind of wood is on the guitar. I doubt these people care about what species of wood trim is on their Beemers. But a guitar is, at the end of the day - a wood instrument. Regardless of the many places on the internet Martin 'specs' are discussed - for year old models or for those coming out in the future, and holding 'reading comprehension' issues aside ... IF Martin intends to be vague about the specs of higher end guitars, it is their right. As it is the right of the cork sniffers to push back. So, on a guitar forum - since Martin is the 500 lb. gorilla - the question is fair game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 Either in haste or my old man memory is hinky, I recall posting(or maybe I forgot to click on "submit reply") a question about whether Sitka spruce is really superior for tone than the many other spruce woods, or is it used because it may be in better abundance that the others? And that I don't know just what kind of wood was used when my 50 year old Epiphone FT-145 was built, but the guitar's tone is just fine with me. And(Sgt. Pepper might like this) a buddy of mine was kind of envious because he said it had better tone than his '67 J-45. Whitefang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 29 minutes ago, Whitefang said: Either in haste or my old man memory is hinky, I recall posting(or maybe I forgot to click on "submit reply") a question about whether Sitka spruce is really superior for tone than the many other spruce woods, or is it used because it may be in better abundance that the others? And that I don't know just what kind of wood was used when my 50 year old Epiphone FT-145 was built, but the guitar's tone is just fine with me. And(Sgt. Pepper might like this) a buddy of mine was kind of envious because he said it had better tone than his '67 J-45. Whitefang It isn't superior in any way outside of the abundance of it's cheapness, because it is abundant. It remains abundant, it is not threatened. It is grown all along the west coast on up to Sitka Alaska. It is, in the end, just a spruce tree that gets big, therefore it made for inexpensive musical instrument tops. Among other things, because "sitka" spruce is used to make just about everything. It isn't sailboat tonewood or furniture tonewood or anything like that, it is just plentiful and cheap. Guitar makers have stretched the boundaries of what they call things many times over, and occasionally need to reset things so they can get on with being allowed to call something a name that it is not. They have probably been calling any spruce they can get from the west coast of us/canada/alaska "sitka" when they shouldn't have. All of them, not CFMartin in particular. Or, it's a giant conspiracy designed to lift thousands of dollars from your pocket while telling you absolutely NOTHING about your guitar, because we all know that nothing sells guitars like not telling the guitar player what the guitar is made of, that has been so successful for so many companies that CFMartin had to get in on that action. rct 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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