ksdaddy Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 "Nostalgia....does not relate to a specific memory, but rather to an emotional state. This idealized emotional state is framed within a past era, and the yearning for the idealized emotional state manifests as an attempt to recreate that past era by reproducing activities performed then and by using symbolic representations of the past." ~Alan R. Hirsch, Advances in Consumer Research Volume 19, 1992 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 To my guess this is not only valid for vintage guitars but also applies to artificially aged, road worn, relic'd etc. ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted September 23, 2015 Author Share Posted September 23, 2015 I have spent....so....many....thousands....of dollars buying guitars (and guns, and books, and bicycles, and cars) that I hoped would help me slake the irrational, debilitating, emotionally crippling thirst for some bygone era that may or may not have ever existed. Nothing will make the connection. The past that I want to know never happened except maybe in a random issue of Life magazine. It's time to say no. Say no and look forward. I'm either losing my grip or I've had a moment of clarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 It's clarity dude. I pick up a guitar and I'm 17 playing the Outlaws at stupid volume. It doesn't matter what guitar it is, old ones don't make it feel any closer, new ones don't make it feel any farther. I'm the same kid, just older, and it still feels exactly the same. Not to mention most of them guitars weren't really all that great anyway, that's why I always say "pass". Doesn't mean I wouldn't like a Tele with CLF or TG on the heel, just means I won't pay stupid money for it just because I was too stupid to keep the ones I had. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvercrow Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Cool thread starter- always good to know the psychology behind the marketing! But being an antique lover / hunter theres a part of it that appeals to the "look how they used to make / do such & such". Whenever I lay hands on an antique gun I imagine the history and persons that owned it before, how it was depended upon, perhaps... To my guess this is not only valid for vintage guitars but also applies to artificially aged, road worn, relic'd etc. ones. You may have a point there Cap! But I'm thinking the road worn / relic'ed finish thing appeals more to our "I'm a road warrior- been doin' this a while! Decades spent with this axe around my neck..." and the like? Just me, but I WANT TO BEAT UP MY OWN GUITARS THANKYOU! Image is everything! I have friends who think they are "bikers", as they trailer their new Harleys to within' 100 miles of Daytona, camp out the night and "ride in" the next morning. "YEP! Came ALL the way on this baby...!" Cracks me up! Mention to them coming along on a long weekend run; +/- 400 miles per day and the color drains from their faces... My big biker buddies cant believe I went from Pa. to Michigan, 734 miles, in one day / straight. They drag their leather jackets behind their cars (literally) to make 'em look 'worn in'! In the 90s they called them 'posers'... Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 I always say, steam locomotive train engines. That was far enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannusguy2 Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Some of it is about an aesthetic, I think. I'm down to just a couple of "vintage" guitars that I have a fair amount of money in. Not looking for any more as I'm quite happy with the newer offerings out there. That being said, I still buy 1950s Danish lighting/furniture, 1930s leather club chairs from France and funky old furniture/rugs. I love the way that stuff looks and it not about nostalgia. I wasn't alive then or I was a kid. It's more about the timeless design (in my opinion) or the quality of construction. I see very little in contemporary things of this nature that appeal to me. Usually, if something does, it's reprising an earlier era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Its from the saying... "They don't make em like they used too" Meaning slightly different things to different people... In the case of guitars people think old wood is good wood and thus vintage must mean better tone ... In the case of amps (and could be true) its the original electronic components that they don't make any more which people think sound better... I think in some cases that's true and in some cases there are VERY good reasons they changed they way things were made..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Interesting philosophy. I'm not sure how I relate to it. I have a coupla houses that are 80-100 yo including my home but I just like the space and feeling they are made to last. Don't fill em with antiques and walk around smoking a pipe though. guitars - 2 of the 3 are older than I am, so they aren't based on memories, they just made the things so light in the 60's that they are great for my back - though I do appreciate the attention to detail built into them. My other guitar is made in '84 and its genuinely 'road worn' by me and those new 'road worn' Fenders are way off - i mean where's all the sweat and grime and finger divots on the fretboard and wedding ring scalloping on the neck edge. the maple fingerboard on mine is so black over much of it from wear you cant see the dots in half light - the custom shop/collectors choice stuff is way more accurate but the regular road worn ain't much chop to my eyes. interesting to read others views - i'm sure mr Hirsch's research has some merit. i do look at cars of my youth fondly, but thankfully can see them for the bottomless money pit they usually are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karloff Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 It's clarity dude. I pick up a guitar and I'm 17 playing the Outlaws at stupid volume. It doesn't matter what guitar it is, old ones don't make it feel any closer, new ones don't make it feel any farther. I'm the same kid, just older, and it still feels exactly the same. Not to mention most of them guitars weren't really all that great anyway, that's why I always say "pass". Doesn't mean I wouldn't like a Tele with CLF or TG on the heel, just means I won't pay stupid money for it just because I was too stupid to keep the ones I had. rct I've said for years, being a musician, and particularly R&R, in a way makes you a perpetual teenager ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karloff Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 "Nostalgia....does not relate to a specific memory, but rather to an emotional state. This idealized emotional state is framed within a past era, and the yearning for the idealized emotional state manifests as an attempt to recreate that past era by reproducing activities performed then and by using symbolic representations of the past." ~Alan R. Hirsch, Advances in Consumer Research Volume 19, 1992 "The emotional truths of childhood have the power to transcend objective fact" - Bob Costas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted September 23, 2015 Author Share Posted September 23, 2015 To own something from another era and enjoy it for whatever reason(s) is fine. We all do it to some degree. There is a dark side. In a daydream I might imagine a 10 year old kid at Christmas 1957 getting a brand new Desert Sand Fender Musicmaster with anodized pickguard, tweed case and matching Princeton amp. I imagine the sights, sounds, smells, first chords fumbled out while the adults are watching Ed Sullivan downstairs. Not me, I'm sitting on the edge of my bed with my newfangled electric guitar, trying to make a D chord without tangling my fingers. I see the Roy Rogers lamp on my night stand and I'm somehow saddened...I'm no longer obsessed with cowboy stuff... I want to play guitar like that guy on the Ozzie and Harriet show. Such a daydream is typical in my life. I have a vivid imagination and just-enough wallet to make it dangerous. At this point I would be shopping for a desert sand Musicmaster to hold in my hand and channel that kid from 1957. But I can't. Nobody can. Owning that Musicmaster will not bring back the dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 "The future ain't what it used to be." Yogi Berra rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 But I can't. Nobody can. Owning that Musicmaster will not bring back the dead. Nope. Consider ourselves lucky to have lived through it and try to get to retirement so we can spend all day re-mastering the hard chords again. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFord Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 I wouldn't mind replacing a few guitars that I stupidly sold years ago with the same thing. 80s 335 & Les Paul '55 Special reissue, 25th Anniversary Les Paul, early 70s SG Standard, for instance. I won't pay a boatload for them, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookieman15061 Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 I have spent....so....many....thousands....of dollars buying guitars (and guns, and books, and bicycles, and cars) that I hoped would help me slake the irrational, debilitating, emotionally crippling thirst for some bygone era that may or may not have ever existed. Nothing will make the connection. The past that I want to know never happened except maybe in a random issue of Life magazine. It's time to say no. Say no and look forward. I'm either losing my grip or I've had a moment of clarity. or you've lost your clarity by gripping it loosely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 When HJ took over Gibson the quality went up again and I've played a couple of late 80s 335s that easily rival any vintage equivalent. Which removed permanently any desire I had to own a vintage ES335. After the Fender buy-out happened (1982 I think) - and before they started relicing - the quality also went up again. Now the quality of both may (or may not) have gone down a bit since then but there is still no 'need' to buy a vintage guitar. You would get a better and quicker return on other investments - art for instance. But "the emotional truths about childhood have a power that transcends objective fact" - what a great quote, so true - I'd not heard that before, thank you Karloff. That's reason enough, says it all IMO.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 "Nostalgia....does not relate to a specific memory, but rather to an emotional state. This idealized emotional state is framed within a past era, and the yearning for the idealized emotional state manifests as an attempt to recreate that past era by reproducing activities performed then and by using symbolic representations of the past." ~Alan R. Hirsch, Advances in Consumer Research Volume 19, 1992 This comment, being 1992 is already outdated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Through all my life making music meant for me playing and singing new songs I wrote. Same way seeking guitar tones has always been a thing of the present for me. Judging guitars by tone and playability, I have always been open for technical development. The most important progresses in my opinion were the piezo pickups, first introduced by Les Barcus and John Berry, the double-locking vibrato system invented by Floyd Rose, and the SC-shaped noiseless Fender pickups. When piezos appeared on solidbodies, I felt close to guitar heaven. However, when about some guilty pleasure in my arsenal, there's one partly based on teenage memories indeed. This link between past and present spans over 39 years for me. Recently I posted into this 22 months old topic http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/107093-the-moment which leads me to the only exception to pure utilitarism among my guitars. I wrote about how Frank Zappa's song "Stinkfoot" made me want to play guitar in 1974 already, long before I started doing it in 1980. I loved the song and also loved the tones he blew out of his guitar. Only Frank Zappa's "Roxy" SG offers these tones, and I found no other guitar that comes even close. I think he knew very well why he modded his SG just the way he did. In particular, no similar front pickup position can be found on any other SG. Then they made 400 of these in 2013. I have to admit I had to jump over my own shadow when buying this guitar because of the virtually useless Lyra vibrato. Even a roller bridge wasn't of help. I just leave the vibrato alone and enjoy the tones. All in all, most of my guitars are variations of the "Big Four" solidbodies Telecaster, Les Paul, Stratocaster, and SG. Anyway, none of them represents what's usually called vintage, but this is not important for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 I have spent....so....many....thousands....of dollars buying guitars (and guns, and books, and bicycles, and cars) that I hoped would help me slake the irrational, debilitating, emotionally crippling thirst for some bygone era that may or may not have ever existed. Nothing will make the connection. The past that I want to know never happened except maybe in a random issue of Life magazine. It's time to say no. Say no and look forward. I'm either losing my grip or I've had a moment of clarity. I say, take it easy on yourself. Spend your extra money on what you see fit. I have found thru the years that what I feel is priceless... is 'worthless' to most of my fellow humans...If you can find people that think like you, you might possiby make some "deals". I like vintage (used). I don't like new. To me, buying a new guitar is like buying a new car....Lost money off of the lot! I like played-in and the lore of the history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SG Jones Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I have old and new guitars and I love them both for very different reasons. A well crafted new guitar can sound and play as well as an old one, but they are more gig friendly for obvious reasons. New guitars don't come with "issues." Having said that, there is certainly something very charming about the human touch of old guitars. The same model will have subtle differences that clearly identify it. Each one is unique.After all they were built by luthiers in small batches and did not roll off of a production line. I only tend to get that weak in the knees feeling from old guitars. Also, they smell great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Hayden Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 You were rich , I started out with a 1960's Sears Silvertone 1448 Electric Guitar w/case.And those were good days 4H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skilsaw Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 The past that I want to know never happened except maybe in a random issue of Life magazine. Life magazine or Saturday Evening Post with the cover pictures by Norman Rockwell. Those were the days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 It's clarity dude. I pick up a guitar and I'm 17 playing the Outlaws at stupid volume. It doesn't matter what guitar it is, old ones don't make it feel any closer, new ones don't make it feel any farther. I'm the same kid, just older, and it still feels exactly the same. rct That's the coolest thing I've read in a long time. And so right on....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brundaddy Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Dig the Seneca quote. You sell the sizzle, not the steak. The greatest advertising/social engineering/politics book is Propaganda by Edward Bernays, the inventor of the "press release," and the man who pulled out of his butt "wholesome," "hearty," and "public relations." Bernays is why we think bacon and eggs are what we're supposed to eat for breakfast food. And he was a Jew who ordered around the KKK Grand Dragon/U.S. President Woodrow Wilson. Anyway, most of us think (X) is best because conditioning forces us to think it is so. Record companies tell us who are superstars, XYZ-magazine/ABC-newspaper tell us who are superstars, radio stations tell us who are superstars, and like sheep we idolize and talk to each other about what we're told to think about the superstars. Same goes for guitars. Actually they overlap, as so many are eager to buy a guitar similar to their idol's - and so many buy multiple guitars, doing as they're told that collecting is good and whether or not (X) is valuable/desirable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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