Vega1 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Not sure I'm articulating this right, but here goes... It seems I have a hard time getting a good distortion sound that works for songs where open or bar chords are used and the high end strings need to stand out. In other words the bottom end overpowers the high end. For example, I've been learning some Rush songs lately for fun, and Alex Lifeson makes heavy use of 6-string chords and the G-B-E strings play a big part. But the sustain/ring of the E-A-D strings just drowns them out. I've tried adjusting EQ, new strings, fiddling with the distortion settings, different distortions, etc. I just seem to have a hell of a time getting it to sound right (through headphones, an amp, different guitars, etc.) Is it my playing style (not enough attack on the high end)? Is this making sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 The best thing I have found for this is turning the gain down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad1 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Do you always strum down when hitting the chords? If so, try strumming up. I have found that makes a world of difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vega1 Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 Do you always strum down when hitting the chords? If so, try strumming up. I have found that makes a world of difference. Yep, been playing a while, thats one of the first things I tried. That's kinda what I mean, I suspect its something about my tone/setup vs technique, but it just seems weird I'd be having such trouble getting the sound I'm looking for. The comment about gain is interesting... thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Not sure I'm articulating this right, but here goes... It seems I have a hard time getting a good distortion sound that works for songs where open or bar chords are used and the high end strings need to stand out. In other words the bottom end overpowers the high end. For example, I've been learning some Rush songs lately for fun, and Alex Lifeson makes heavy use of 6-string chords and the G-B-E strings play a big part. But the sustain/ring of the E-A-D strings just drowns them out. I've tried adjusting EQ, new strings, fiddling with the distortion settings, different distortions, etc. I just seem to have a hell of a time getting it to sound right (through headphones, an amp, different guitars, etc.) Is it my playing style (not enough attack on the high end)? Is this making sense? What guitar/pickups are you using to try and get this?? Im my experience it just sounds like you have it set too bassy.. I also find if I have the gain up and am on the neck pickup I get that sort of issue.. Either turn the trebel up or try palm muting the low strings a bit just before you hit the higher strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Well...you probably tried this already but - Bridge pickup with guitar vol up full max out the treble on the amp, halve the bass and mid - what amp are you using by the way? A little volume tweak more/less can change the tone considerably...pedals would (very general observation)tend to take out treble a bit - what's your signal chain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vega1 Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 Well...you probably tried this already but - Bridge pickup with guitar vol up full max out the treble on the amp, halve the bass and mid - what amp are you using by the way? A little volume tweak more/less can change the tone considerably...pedals would (very general observation)tend to take out treble a bit - what's your signal chain? Using a LP Studio and/or SG '61 Re-issue through a Digitech RP-255 (into headphones) usually, or a Fender Princeton Chorus less often (3 kids, a wife, and a day job), so yeah, this is not a professional setup by any means, but it is one I would think would at least give the versatility to get close. For context, "Limelight" is a perfect example of a song that makes heavy use of the high end, but when I'm playing it if the E-A-D are ringing it just drowns out the G-B-E. Thanks again for the input. Maybe I just need to keep tweaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Using a LP Studio and/or SG '61 Re-issue through a Digitech RP-255 (into headphones) usually, or a Fender Princeton Chorus less often (3 kids, a wife, and a day job), so yeah, this is not a professional setup by any means, but it is one I would think would at least give the versatility to get close. For context, "Limelight" is a perfect example of a song that makes heavy use of the high end, but when I'm playing it if the E-A-D are ringing it just drowns out the G-B-E. Thanks again for the input. Maybe I just need to keep tweaking. Theres also another technique that ive heard about being used to get better tone. Put the pickup selector in the middle position, turn the bridge pickup volume down to say 6 and turn the tone on the neck pickup down a bit.. Try some combinations like that.. The point being that you get the bass and some of the higher end frequencies so when you start playing the higher strings the sound has still got some room to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Bone Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 How is your set up WRT the string height from the p'ups? Might be you need to either lower the bass side or raise the treble side a bit. A little can go a long way, tonally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Digitech RP-255 I'm gonna say this is your problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vega1 Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 Theres also another technique that ive heard about being used to get better tone. Put the pickup selector in the middle position, turn the bridge pickup volume down to say 6 and turn the tone on the neck pickup down a bit.. Try some combinations like that.. The point being that you get the bass and some of the higher end frequencies so when you start playing the higher strings the sound has still got some room to move. Nice. Thanks. Ashamed to say I haven't spent too much time messing with the guitar's tone/volume controls vs the effects modeling. Something like that might do the trick, seems logical. Might try backing off on the gain too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Using a LP Studio and/or SG '61 Re-issue through a Digitech RP-255 (into headphones) usually, or a Fender Princeton Chorus less often (3 kids, a wife, and a day job), so yeah, this is not a professional setup by any means, but it is one I would think would at least give the versatility to get close. For context, "Limelight" is a perfect example of a song that makes heavy use of the high end, but when I'm playing it if the E-A-D are ringing it just drowns out the G-B-E. Thanks again for the input. Maybe I just need to keep tweaking. No offense to your stuff, but you definitely won't get it with any digital device into headphones and you probably won't get it with a Princeton Chorus. Lots of volume-y goodness and chorus and then double tracked volume-y goodness and chorus going on there. Key being volume and high headroom to do that, neither of your things has really that. Good luck with it, but don't beat yer head into it too much, it isn't going to be easy if at all. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vega1 Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 No offense to your stuff, but you definitely won't get it with any digital device into headphones and you probably won't get it with a Princeton Chorus. Lots of volume-y goodness and chorus and then double tracked volume-y goodness and chorus going on there. Key being volume and high headroom to do that, neither of your things has really that. Good luck with it, but don't beat yer head into it too much, it isn't going to be easy if at all. rct Funny, no offense taken. I would actually be happy (in a strange way) to find out its actually a hard thing to do with a small-time setup like mine and its not just me. So (Dub T-123) the RP-255 is not great, I get that, but lets say your on a limited budget (couple hundred dollars), need to play through headphones primarily, need alot of versatility (clean/distorted types), and would like to have ipod input. What would you suggest? Thanks again for the input everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Yes then, it is going to be VERY hard to get such a sound either way you are doing it. Lots of volume, lots of air moving, that's how that is done, mics up close to cab, mics back 15, 20 in the room getting that chorus so good and getting the (aural) delay needed so it isn't all mushed up with too much overdrive or gain, which he probably isn't using too much of. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Funny, no offense taken. I would actually be happy (in a strange way) to find out its actually a hard thing to do with a small-time setup like mine and its not just me. So (Dub T-123) the RP-255 is not great, I get that, but lets say your on a limited budget (couple hundred dollars), need to play through headphones primarily, need alot of versatility (clean/distorted types), and would like to have ipod input. What would you suggest? Thanks again for the input everyone. How about using your PC? You can get a whole load of modeling stuff and effects on the PC and still use your headphones.. And they will probably sound better :) Personally though I think it comes more down to experience with distortion.. I remember when I started playing with it and turning the gain all the way up.. what a noise lol.. But over the years it just get easier.. you do it without thinking. I have been helping my brother in law learn to play the last few years and hes come up against the same problem.. So he is devoting some time to Palm Muting techniques which he said helped him within a few days of practice.. Like most things in life it just take patience and practice... :) No short cuts here ;) Good luck, its the journey thats important not the destination Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryUK Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Try lowering the pickup on the bass side. Plus I used to find that Dropping certain notes helped. ie, on a G, don't play the 3rd, b. It cleans it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 So (Dub T-123) the RP-255 is not great, I get that, but lets say your on a limited budget (couple hundred dollars), need to play through headphones primarily, need alot of versatility (clean/distorted types), and would like to have ipod input. What would you suggest? Thanks again for the input everyone. If those are your requirements you're pretty much stuck with multifx units. You could run a good overdrive or distortion before the multifx pedal just so you could use the headphone and iPod jacks on the multifx but not have to use its crappy distortion. Really though I suggest you just reconsider the whole multifx setup if your priority is sound quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Funny, no offense taken. I would actually be happy (in a strange way) to find out its actually a hard thing to do with a small-time setup like mine and its not just me. So (Dub T-123) the RP-255 is not great, I get that, but lets say your on a limited budget (couple hundred dollars), need to play through headphones primarily, need alot of versatility (clean/distorted types), and would like to have ipod input. What would you suggest? Thanks again for the input everyone. Also there are some good distortion pedals that dont cost that much.. Theres the Electro Harmonix Big Muff and the RAT pedal... I just got a Big Muff and it was £40 brand new, its pretty good too... (like what $60/$70). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markini Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I use several different methods, here are the basic ones using a "Green Rhino" through a clean amp. To get toneful distortion especially treble. Here's what works for me: On a LP with HBs. I use the neck pickup and turn tone completely off or use the middle option (neck and bridge) turn neck tone off and bridge tone to halfway.. On a Strat using single coils, I use the middle (3) Pu position or the (4) middle pickup and neck pickup., I turn all tone up to max just the opposite of my LPs.. One distortion box (Way Huge Green Rhino) and a clean amp setting. BTW Line 6 has some killer distortion modeling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaysEpiphone Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Like has been said already the Digitech gear is not the best in the world. Try any other amp's and/or peddles out? IMHO Fender amp's are best with a clean(er) sound. If your looking for balls and crunch you should look into a good Marshall rig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazerface Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Use p90 pickups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Just try using less gain, and using the bridge pickup, back off the guitar volume a bit, (maybe half way for starts) See if that cleans up the tone enough to articulate the open/treble notes that are getting squashed during those moments when they are prominent. Another thought, does the digitech have a compressor? if so, have you got that activated? have you tried changing those settings too, with Gain and Compression, a pretty good rule of thumb is less is usually more (aka:clarity) in these kind of situations. /KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Let me introduce you to my little friend... Technically it's a fifth chord I guess, since it has no major third, but I use it instead of the standard Barre F in most cases (unless I really need the major 3rd). It is bright and snappy because it emphasizes the higher strings and it doesn't have the root as its lowest note. I use it all over the neck. Once you know the shape you just remember it a whole step (two frets higher) than your regular power chord. Enjoy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 There's no technicality to it, Surfpup. That's a Root/Fifth with no third, AKA "Power Chord"(assuming you're not sounding the G note on the high E string). Simply a barred D shape. It's a very useful shape for brightening up any dull power chord run. What I don't understand is why a power chord isn't called a sus5, like an Fsus5. There's no third, so it's suspended, and even though it's not added to the chord there's still an emphasis on the Fifth . {edit} Steve Stevens was a big fan of the barred D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaleb Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Alex doesn't use a lot of gain, and that is one of the key things in his sound (equipment, at least). There's no way you could play Rush tunes with a super high gain sound, or even on a high quality high gain amp (like a Soldano, for example). If anyone here has heard the tribute album (I think it was called Working Man or something like that) that Mike Portnoy did with a bunch of other musicians (including two of my favorite 80s gunslingers: Jake E. Lee, and George Lynch! The former played on the Working Man/Bytor melody, and George played on "Anthem"!) in 1996 (Mr. Peart stated that it sounded like a garage band....), they will know what I am talking about. As much as I love Lynch, he completely butchered "Anthem" with his SLO tone and his inability (and he has admitted this) to cover other people's songs. The distortion has to be just right so it sounds powerful and heavy yet articulate. Also, the tone needs to be very wet. The regular Lifeson rhythm sound (at least from the Moving Pictures era) is a straight distortion sound (but not high gain) with a bit of reverb, sometimes augmented with chorus and delay. He also was using equalizers around that time, so you might wanna play with the EQ functions on your processor. Taking away some of the low end and shaping the highs and mids might add clarity. He sometimes runs a stereo rig, too. That kind of makes everything bigger. Alex's tone is big and wide, but it's not too saturated. I think that's the concept behind things. Even though he plays thru higher gain amps nowadays (Hughes & Kettner Triamps! Alex Lifeson edition!), he's not maxing out their preamp sections. It's mostly his pickups in his guitar that drive the amp enough. A lot of guys shape their tone like that. Nuno Bettencourt, for example. Oh, and I'M BACK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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