Why I Tune a Half-Step Down; Why My Keyboard Player Hates It

[JayinLA]

I am self conscious. I never wanted to be a singer/frontman. I wanted and still want to be a guitar god. I'm not. However, when I started doing the vocal stuff for a band just out of high school, It stuck. Musicians that I have played with over the years have even offered to have me front their band and put my guitar down. I'm not doing that either....

 

Actually, I hate my voice. And a secret. The reason I play in E-flat is due to my vocal range. Alot of bands do it because it sounds dirtier, which I agree with, but the real reason for me, is that I cant hit the high notes in songs in higher pitch voicings.

 

My keyboard player, god bless his sole, hates it. He is a "classically trained" keyboard player, so everything we play is a half-step down for him, and it drives him batshhit crazy. I have been called neurotic, a premadonna, and other stuff because I am OCD about guitar tone, and insecure about my vocals, which makes me lash out sometimes, when we write stuff on the piano, and I can't sing it in that key.

 

So then I tell Mike to play it in a lower key, and he starts in on me about everything being my way, and tuning half-step down and all the other *****ing I always get.

 

I put it to him like this..."you are a better musician than I am. You know everything about music theory, but unless you are going to front the band and sing this ****, then piss off, and be a team player." Which has been going on for a year now.

 

I played for 2 hours solo acoustic at a pub on Sunday, and it was great. No keyboard player *****ing, no originals, everyone was receptive, and It dawned on me. I have LSD. (Lead Singer Disease). Which is confounding, because I really don't like to sing (most of the time). And because my voice lacks range, I tune to E-flat. What the hell..

[kidblast]

I was in a band that did this, for the same reason. Vocal assistance.

 

you wouldn't think it's that big of a deal ya know.

but,,

 

It drove me batty. the entire sound of the band and the relaxed string tension on my guitars drove me insane.

and at the time I was using a locking trem on a few of my guitars, and working as well with other bands that tuned standard.

 

it was a PITA.. I got used to it after a while, but the first few months or so of gigging with these guys was pure hell.

 

but for you, what ever works, epsically for solo acoustic stuff.

 

and your Key player,, just needs to "Transpose -1" right, yea, not so easy cuz I'm sure that he probably here's it like I did.

[IanHenry]

I was reading an article that said Mick Ronson used to do that so that he could pull up to the correct note.

 

 

Ian

[Tim Plains]

Tuning down for vocals is a perfectly good reason. Keyboard players are a funny bunch. They like sticking to just the white keys from what I gather.

[kidblast]

Tim, if they are using digital keyboards (and for the large part who isn't these days?)... it's a simple setting that can be done in usually less than 5 seconds.

[charlie brown]

Yeah, I've played with people that needed the 1/2 step down tuning, for the same reason.

In our case, the keyboard had a pitch control, built in, so he just adjusted that, and

plays "as normal," and still in tune with the rest of us. So, I guess it depends, on

people's need, and how versatile a particular keyboard is? Along with everyone's mindset.

 

Also, once it was decided (for sure) that's what we were going to do, I just put on a

slightly heavier gauge string set, to compensate for the less string tension. Seems to

work just fine, and everyone is "happy," now. LOL

 

CB

[daveinspain]

Tim, if they are using digital keyboards (and for the large part who isn't these days?)... it's a simple setting that can be done in usually less than 5 seconds.

 

 

That's what I was thinking, just pitch the keyboard down as well… Unless it's a baby grand...

[badbluesplayer]

If somebody asked me to play guitar in an oddball key just to give the singer 1/2 step of range I'd quit in two seconds. Like you say, everybody's going to think you're a prima donna. Good luck with that.

[merciful-evans]

The singer is usually constrained by his/her limits.

 

1/ You always follow the singer's key. This is the Law of the Band.

 

 

 

I've never had this problem with keyboardists. They can usually handle anything.

 

As for dummy spitters? Try working with sax players. Everything has to be in B-flat.

[zigzag]

Ha! Why don't you write it a half-step lower? Then, you can all feel the pain.

[charlie brown]

I always try to take those key changes, or different tuning challenges, as learning opportunities.

 

 

CB

[JayinLA]

Yeah... all those things about working with people with different A-type personality. My keyboard guy plays with a bunch of people covering all kinds of music genre, but he claims I am hard to work with. We have a great time playing and even rehearsing, but writing, riding in the van, and other stuff we bang heads a little bit.

 

This thread was meant to be a confessional more than the aspect of pitch and stuff. More about my shittty voice, my insecurity, and my ego. And about calling people out that you work with that will piss and moan, but won't step up and take care of the stuff they don't feel is handled the best way.

 

Could be booking, networking, blah blah f-ing blah.

 

Just Venting!!!!

[stein]

Rarely, RARELY, does a half step matter to the vocalist. Changing keys to suit the singer should be REAL changes, like G instead of E, A instead of C.

 

If you are going to front a band, rarely will it work unless you are good at making everyone else happy.

[rct]

It's like you'll only play football on a 90 yard field.

 

rct

[Dub-T-123]

Try working with sax players. Everything has to be in B-flat.

B-flat is ok, but I won't do A-sharp

[Guest Farnsbarns]

How does half a step make a difference? I just don't get it. How often do you find a song with the highest note 1 semitone higher than you can get? Surely your range is a couple of octaves so just sing it a whole octave lower, minus the half step?

 

There must be something I'm not getting.

[charlie brown]

I remember when we all thought The Beatles, and other's in the (first) "British Invasion,"

of the '60's, were playing a semi-tone lower (or higher, depending on how you interpreted it)

than what was often written out, on sheet music, of their songs! Then, we found out, sometime

later, that the recording machinery was slower (power or voltage fluctuations?) or faster, by

about that much, compared to the recording machinery, in the US. So, we often either adjusted

our key, or tuning, to match the records, when in fact they were actually written in the same

key, it just didn't sound like it, on the various records, of that time. LOL

 

CB

[Tman]

We're tuning 1/2 step down for an upcoming gig. Our keyboards player just tunes his keys down as well. It's a Nord. Works like a charm.

[stein]

If somebody asked me to play guitar in an oddball key just to give the singer 1/2 step of range I'd quit in two seconds. Like you say, everybody's going to think you're a prima donna. Good luck with that.

One time that sticks in my head is at a "jam" a guy called out a song in "F". A Shuffle no less.

 

Yes, I asked him about it when he did.

 

As it is, he DID make a CD, but all were hired musicians. He paid them all up-front.

[rct]

One time that sticks in my head is at a "jam" a guy called out a song in "F". A Shuffle no less.

 

Yes, I asked him about it when he did.

 

As it is, he DID make a CD, but all were hired musicians. He paid them all up-front.

 

There are tons of songs that are just done in F, particularly old skewl shuffles, it is no reflection on anyone.

 

rct

[stein]

There are tons of songs that are just done in F, particularly old skewl shuffles, it is no reflection on anyone.

 

rct

Sorry, can't see any reason for F in a blues tune, particularly a shuffle.

 

I know (or more accurate, USED to know) a LOT of blues tunes, and never had I known of one in F. Not even Willie Dixon stuff have I heard or played in F.

 

Point is though, it was a jam, musicians he had never played with before. As in, in front of an audience. He wasn't all that great a musician, or guitar player, and certainly didn't have much knowledge of history about music. What he was was a "ham" of a personality, a decent voice, and an entertainer in that sense, which allowed him to be able to be worth something and worth playing with.

 

I am just giving an example of a situation where being a "primadonna" only hurts the wanna-be.

['Scales]

i tune to Eb for originals i write for the 3 piece. its mainly just because i like the sound and I'm using 10's on a strat scale length so i don't notice any difference versus say a gibson. it seems to work ok with my 'vocal' zone too.

 

the hard part initially was (because we ain't musicians by any stretch and didn't know better) figuring out how to describe what i was playing to the bass player. in the end i said just tune down to Eb like me, and pretend we are still in E and communicate as if we are in E. that made all the difference - God, what were we thinking before doing that

[rct]

Sorry, can't see any reason for F in a blues tune, particularly a shuffle.

 

I know (or more accurate, USED to know) a LOT of blues tunes, and never had I known of one in F. Not even Willie Dixon stuff have I heard or played in F.

 

Point is though, it was a jam, musicians he had never played with before. As in, in front of an audience. He wasn't all that great a musician, or guitar player, and certainly didn't have much knowledge of history about music. What he was was a "ham" of a personality, a decent voice, and an entertainer in that sense, which allowed him to be able to be worth something and worth playing with.

 

I am just giving an example of a situation where being a "primadonna" only hurts the wanna-be.

 

There are literally gazillions of songs written in F from long before a drummer, upright bassist, and guitar player played them. You don't know of them because you haven't played with the group of instruments that prefers that key. Key is about the instruments, not the genre or the dive bar it is played in. It is a good chance that guitar player played with a larger ensemble that used F for the horns, or more likely, someone blew the harp, they got funny transpositions that require us to play in funny keys so they fit right.

 

Any guitar player that goes out to a "jam" should, in my opinion, know that a I-IV-V blues or shuffle is just that no matter what the key. If you can't count count in your head the I and IV and V chords in a key you shouldn't be up there.

 

The "primadonna" is the guy that tunes differently, not calls a key that is different from what you are used to. Standard tuning is standard tuning, and the other instruments are the basis for how we tune. A guy that plays the guitar tuned a half step down will not make it to the first tune with a band of horns and/or strings. A guy that likes Kansas City in F will go far with any band, as long as he tunes "standard A=440 or close to it".

 

Goodness knows I am rusty at theory and would not be able to hang with a band of horns/strings, but I do know this stuff and it never changes. Some more contemporary players should be able to fill in any blanks I left. Point is simple: standard tuning so you can get along with others, the key is up to whomever calls it, the two are very different concepts.

 

rct

[capmaster]

B-flat is ok, but I won't do A-sharp

Two flats compared to ten sharps for the enharmonic equivalent? I would decline that, too.

[rocketman]

If your keyboard player is classically trained then he shouldn't have a problem with this. If he does then he's not as good as he thinks he is.

 

I played jazz using a Fender Rhodes in my teens. I was asked to change the tuning several times. For me it was fun "mathematics" because I would think in terms of increasing by a certain interval (counts of half or whole steps). After a while it was pretty easy to do.

 

These days I lost that ability, so I change the tuning electronically but that drives me crazy because the pitch doesn't match what I see myself playing. Maybe someday I'll be able to capture my old days, but at least I admit that I'm not as good as I used to be.