Even in my insignificant country we're not safe anymore

[charlie brown]

Awel, I too, am heartbroken, over what's happened in your beautiful country!

 

These days, with instant communication, in "Real Time," and nearly instant travel, there is no

truly "safe" place left. All it takes is one, or two individuals, with an agenda, to wreak havoc,

anywhere in the world. It's all very depressing! As long as we fail to compromise, and pit "our God"

against "their God,"(whichever/whatever "God" you determine that to be), and/or any other ideology,

and give in to the darker side of human nature, blood lust, greed, and entitlement, I don't see much

hope! At least, not in the near future, anyway. But, I'm "cynical!"

 

So, as the saying goes: "keep your friends, and loved one's close, and your enemies closer!"

 

 

CB

[SteveFord]

No bother, Awel.

The entire civilized world is dealing with these cretins.

Sorry it hit your neck of the woods.

[Retired]

1458673900[/url]' post='1753979']

Minor derail to answer the smoking question with all due apologies.

 

I don't think I feel a bit better but the change would have been so gradual I would not have noticed. I can't tolerate the smell of smoke now. I let my daughter's boyfriend use my old '88 Blazer for a few weeks and the residual smoke smell is nauseating. I had no idea. No idea.

 

Sorry for the derail. Back to the topic.

 

Congrats on quilting. As a non smoker, I could not stand being near a smoker fo that reason. They made me cough and gag just smelling it on their clothes. When they lit up, I had to leave. But then my lungs are very sensitive to smoke and dust.

[Retired]

1458681458[/url]' post='1754002']

The problem with all this stuff is that there's a tendency amongst us "Europeans" and even our neighbors in China, Korea, Japan, etc., to see warfare as one with various size armies using various tactics and strategies to "win."

 

But this isn't about defeating an enemy in combat, it's about changing a culture; and that's an entirely different game. One might make a case that the Romans changed the culture of much of "Britain," or similar sorts of invasions, but that took centuries and a cupla more invasions and even now there are variations of subcultures on that island.

 

This is a matter of cultures that so far have deep divisions in their entire concepts of "civilization" at odds with generalized European and generalized Asian (Chinese, etc.) concepts of civilization.

 

I fear that until there's a change in Islam that admits wholly to equal validity of perspective of other cultures, philosophies and even religions in general, the current difficulties will continue until long after all of us here are gone.

 

One interesting quote from the Quran in translation may offer insight; the scholars expand on it through the years, but: "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

 

m

And they teach them this in schools, their indoctrinated in their teachings as kids. So it's not just fighting a country, it would be like fighting cock roaches. Their in every country. And like the saying, "Ha, you're bringing a Nife to a Gun fight?" Well, "Ha, you're bringing a gun to a Bomb fight?" How do you tell if someone has explosives under their clothing? Yea, sorry to hear of this attack, I just found out this morning. Prayers go out to the victims and family's.

[zigzag]

Let's try to remember that ISIS is the enemy of Islam.

[RevDavidLee]

Some days I just feel as though I have lived too long. There's just too much hate in this world. My love and sorrow for all those affected today by yet another terrorist attack that has killed and injured so many innocents. It saddens me to the core.

[RevDavidLee]

Brussels airport and metro station have been attacked by terrorists, I am shocked really perhaps it is not the place to share my feeling but I need to say what I am feeling and I think it is better here than on facebook.

 

I am jealous of you USA people, really, because you have the balls to take appropriate measures after being attacked, no rights anymore for people known as being part close or far of IS, they're killing our people, our kids, our brothers.

 

My soul is teared between hate, rage and sadness.

When our dirigeants in Europe will have the balls to kick them out

 

sorry to bother you

 

There is nothing insignificant about your country my Euro Brother. And you are never a "bother". May some peace surround you in between your hate, rage and sadness.

[jaxson50]

1458685200[/url]' post='1754026']

Just my observations,

- The terrorism acts of this century draw some real lineage from the western response to the Russian occupation of Afghanistan a couple of decades earlier - and particularly the way the aftermath was handled.

- Core to the role of government forces is to protect the 'elite' from their citizenry - the idealists wish to incite uprising of their people using acts to instil confidence, the leaders of countries suffering acts against them need to respond to maintain the confidence/control of their own people.

- When watching documentaries (non-political) about Syria prior to all this, it seemed a nice enough place with people going about their lives with similar hopes and ambitions to me. Not a dark den of masses of people huddled on a daily basis to focus their thoughts and energise on terrorising those of different beliefs and in need of some oppression.

 

Awesome effort on the smoking quitting KSD!! I don't smoke a lot but its probably time to stop altogether. I don't particularly like it and have never been addicted that I can tell - it just takes me back to pleasures of younger days in a strange sort of way - I think its some kind of freedom based motivation. Amazing now to visit city CBDs and see just the occasional smoker. I really think it could be completely gone within a generation or two, and would never have thought that 10 years ago.

 

Terror attacks predates the Russian invasion and occupation of Afghanistan. Maybe you are too young to know that. Some of us still remember watching the 1972 Olympics by Black October, the numerous airliner hijackings, the Red Army attacks in Japan, the assassination of Sadat, the car bombings in Ireland, the Basque bombings in Spain during the 1970s, Before you blame the "west" code for the USA, read some history on the topic. Gods peace to all the victims of this senseless attacks.

['Scales]

No blame-laying whatsoever.

My comments related to my understanding the rise of al Qaeda and whatever it morphed into this century: The fighters in Afg. were well trained and armed by allied forces but then disowned by their own nations in the aftermath and that is who their quarrel was/is with and it fed a desire to develop an IS with the power to defend itself. Terror attacks sought to build support among their countrymen to overthrow the regimes - not entirely successfully. Those attacked in the west as part of that ploy saw little option than to fight back. A shame to see what happened to a place like Syria. All very unfortunate.

 

That's a summary of what I said and meant in a nutshell (having already expressed sorrow to the victims in a much earlier post).

 

I am too young to remember the things you listed mainly, but I'll thank you not to make public judgements about blaming an ally nation just because you read something in a different context to its intention. If anyone thought different, apologies - again not blame intended at all - that's not typically what I would do.

[awel]

I know we are all on the same boat but sometimes I feel lost and even worst sometimes I loose faith in humanity, then yesterday evening I came back from work kissed my wife and daughter (she's only 2.5 years old) and play with her all the evening that heals a lot but when she was asleep, I felt so insecure, I was asking myself what have I done, having a baby in these times of hate, rage and pain is a bit egoist ... how can I protect her from shadow killer like terrorist.

I am not afraid to die (but afraid of pain, like every one guess)because whatever happened now I can say I had a nice life, had some fun, shared as much love as I can ... but I am afraid for her, for my wife, for my family.

 

Anyway the good thing is that in these hard times humanity rises, right after the explosions, everyone around helps to rescue or to give coffee, propose their houses if needed, everyone, traders in suit and tie, homeless, black, white, asian, people from Irak and other north africa places ...

 

I am thinking to organize a concert for freedom, hope and humanity with some other bands, collect money for some associations

['Scales]

You're a good man Al. And as another good man said 'keep on rockin' in the free world'

[btoth76]

"Those who forget history are destined to repeat it."

 

The devastation of the jihad against the Hungarian Kingdom (1591–1606). The percentage shows the number of destroyed households during the Long Turkish War:

 

 

Populated areas of the Budapest region in the 14th, and - after the muslim occupation - in the 18th century:

 

 

By the way: on the right map, the towns/villages represented with colored (non-black) dots are the then newly populated places with German, and Slavic settlers.

 

Bence.

[LarryUK]

Perhaps we should give them all a guitar?

[btoth76]

Perhaps we should give them all a guitar?

 

Perhaps a ticket back home.

[fretplay]

The influx (invasion?) of migrants into Europe is a joke. When you see them, they're 95% men. Gadaffi said Islam would take the West without a shot being fired.

It's looking like he might be right. We are so politically correct, if we had a mass attack, the police would protect the attackers because it's their human right to attack. I say things like they are. I live in Birmingham UK and when I go into the city I feel intimidated. It's like Baghdad central. We are swamped with foreigners and if we say anything they call us racist. I just want to live in a peaceful free country, but it's being given away.

 

I drove through Sparks Hill a couple of years ago. I thought it was just another Birmingham suburb but I was wrong. There was banging on the car roof and bags pulled across the bonnet of the car. So I discovered there's a no go area in my country for people like me the indigenous population.

[fretplay]

Brussels airport and metro station have been attacked by terrorists, I am shocked really perhaps it is not the place to share my feeling but I need to say what I am feeling and I think it is better here than on facebook.

 

I am jealous of you USA people, really, because you have the balls to take appropriate measures after being attacked, no rights anymore for people known as being part close or far of IS, they're killing our people, our kids, our brothers.

 

My soul is teared between hate, rage and sadness.

When our dirigeants in Europe will have the balls to kick them out

 

sorry to bother you

 

I was working in London in the 70s when the IRA were bombing London. People pulled together, thats all you can do. My heart goes out to you Awel and all Belgian people.

[J.4knee]

Awel,

 

We stand with you. We share your angst and disgust. I'll loosely quote Norman Schwarzkopf,...Our duty is not to judge those who are willing to die in order to get to Allah, our duty is simply to arrange the meeting.

[jaxson50]

1458707456[/url]' post='1754110']

No blame-laying whatsoever.

My comments related to my understanding the rise of al Qaeda and whatever it morphed into this century: The fighters in Afg. were well trained and armed by allied forces but then disowned by their own nations in the aftermath and that is who their quarrel was/is with and it fed a desire to develop an IS with the power to defend itself. Terror attacks sought to build support among their countrymen to overthrow the regimes - not entirely successfully. Those attacked in the west as part of that ploy saw little option than to fight back. A shame to see what happened to a place like Syria. All very unfortunate.

 

That's a summary of what I said and meant in a nutshell (having already expressed sorrow to the victims in a much earlier post).

 

I am too young to remember the things you listed mainly, but I'll thank you not to make public judgements about blaming an ally nation just because you read something in a different context to its intention. If anyone thought different, apologies - again not blame intended at all - that's not typically what I would do.

 

The current purveyors of news and opinion count on the fact that most people alive today were born after 1980, and don't remember the facts. It plays into the hands of those who want to shape our opinions, it is up to each of us therefore to shape our own based on facts, dates, and forgotten names. The situation predates us all, as Milod and others have pointed out, at the root of the current problem is a deeply rooted division within the Islamic world, it is true that the West, and Russia, has never fully understood the or cared about the cause of the division within the Arab world. That does not help matters. We could go on and on about the various invasions dating back to the Crusaders, the Ottomans, the Khans, the Romans, but I would rather leave you with a link to some very well educated writers mostly from the Middle East and some who have studied the age old conflicts and can explain both sides better than anyone on this forum, I read the opinions and commentary section everyday and it has helped me to get a much better understanding of the view from within those societies.

 

https://english.alarabiya.net

[jdgm]

Let's try to remember that ISIS is the enemy of Islam.

 

 

The current purveyors of news and opinion count on the fact that most people alive today were born after 1980, and don't remember the facts. It plays into the hands of those who want to shape our opinions, it is up to each of us therefore to shape our own based on facts, dates, and forgotten names. The situation predates us all, as Milod and others have pointed out, at the root of the current problem is a deeply rooted division within the Islamic world, it is true that the West, and Russia, has never fully understood the or cared about the cause of the division within the Arab world. That does not help matters. We could go on and on about the various invasions dating back to the Crusaders, the Ottomans, the Khans, the Romans, but I would rather leave you with a link to some very well educated writers mostly from the Middle East and some who have studied the age old conflicts and can explain both sides better than anyone on this forum, I read the opinions and commentary section everyday and it has helped me to get a much better understanding of the view from within those societies.

 

https://english.alarabiya.net

 

2 very good posts.

[LarryUK]

I drove through Sparks Hill a couple of years ago. I thought it was just another Birmingham suburb but I was wrong. There was banging on the car roof and bags pulled across the bonnet of the car. So I discovered there's a no go area in my country for people like me the indigenous population.

Yes. The area called 'Alum rock' Is known as a 'no white' zone at night. Yet if you say anything to anyone, they call you racist. All of the trouble with the schools being taken over is true. I work for a teacher that was there and she said there had been a speaker system fitted in the school to call them to prayer. Then they go into the playground, boys at the front and girls at the back for prayers. We're not allowed to say or do anything because we're racist if we do. It's ok for politicians and the wealthy to tell us that multiculturalism is great, they live in big houses and the only Muslim they meet is the surgeon next door to them. Not the one with 10 kids that sh*t in the garden and think it's their right to live like barbarians in Britain. The country I grew up in is gone now. Sold off by the rich and being flushed out with cheap foreign labour. It's a shame. I've told my sons not to have kids as they will grow up in an Islamic state. I'm glad but sad to say that they agree. R.I.P Britain.

[charlie brown]

Let's try to remember that ISIS is the enemy of Islam.

 

Then, Why doesn't "Good=moderate Islam" eradicate ISIS?! Why do they

turn every country they "escape" to, into the very things they were trying

to be rid of?! Why do they refuse to assimilate, to their adopted surroundings,

and instead, make their new "homes," into crime ridden ghettos, and "no go zones,"

for their adopted country's populations, and even the police?! ISIS itself,

may indeed be the enemy of Islam, but Islam sure hasn't done much to get rid

of them! They seem to task, or count on "The West," to try and do that, for

them! Not all of them, are "bad," obviously. But, way too many seem to have

no interest, at all, in living "in harmony" with their newly, or even not so

newly adopted countries. That too, is nothing new, but typical, throughout

their history. Pfffff!

 

CB

[merciful-evans]

Then, Why doesn't "Good=moderate Islam" eradicate ISIS?! Why do they

turn every country they "escape" to, into the very things they were trying

to be rid of?! Why do they refuse to assimilate, to their adopted surroundings,

and instead, make their new "homes," into crime ridden ghettos, and "no go zones,"

for their adopted country's populations, and even the police?! ISIS itself,

may indeed be the enemy of Islam, but Islam sure hasn't done much to get rid

of them! They seem to task, or count on "The West," to try and do that, for

them! Not all of them, are "bad," obviously. But, way too many seem to have

no interest, at all, in living "in harmony" with their newly, or even not so

newly adopted countries. That too, is nothing new, but typical, throughout

their history. Pfffff!

 

CB

 

Because moderate 'peaceful' islam is in denial. The decent and caring muslims in this country insist that islam is the religion of peace, and claim that the koran is misquoted and misinterpreted.

 

But as Milod showed in post#45 this isnt true. There is hatred and incitement to violence in the islamic texts.

 

If this is pointed out (and it has been in debate in the media often) the moderates still wont accept it. Its as if they are trying to own the truth by force of will.

 

 

 

I got so frustrated at this 3 years ago that I declared on a religious forum that... "I no longer care what you believe. I only care about what you do...."

[Digger]

Yes. The area called 'Alum rock' Is known as a 'no white' zone at night. Yet if you say anything to anyone, they call you racist. All of the trouble with the schools being taken over is true. I work for a teacher that was there and she said there had been a speaker system fitted in the school to call them to prayer. Then they go into the playground, boys at the front and girls at the back for prayers. We're not allowed to say or do anything because we're racist if we do. It's ok for politicians and the wealthy to tell us that multiculturalism is great, they live in big houses and the only Muslim they meet is the surgeon next door to them. Not the one with 10 kids that sh*t in the garden and think it's their right to live like barbarians in Britain. The country I grew up in is gone now. Sold off by the rich and being flushed out with cheap foreign labour. It's a shame. I've told my sons not to have kids as they will grow up in an Islamic state. I'm glad but sad to say that they agree. R.I.P Britain.

 

I was in London in 1963 and remember race riots in Brixton so this is not something new!

[Digger]

At the street level this appears to be about religion and for the "foot soldiers" I guess it is, however for those leading this "proxy" war, it's about power!

 

Power is the ultimate motivation though, always has been.

 

The west has the power, they want it!

 

Revenue from oil sales allows them to fund these activities unfortunately, and without it I think the problem would not be so bad.

 

On the other hand speaking of oil and power, destabilising a country by removing it's controlling body is a high risk strategy as there are always others willing to rush in and fill the void. We have seen this in Iraq and Syria.

 

"Shock & Awe" campaigns destroying a countries infrastructure are hardly likely to win the hearts and minds of the population, a lesson that should have be learnt earlier.

 

Then the rest of the world has to bear the price of the mess this all leaves.

 

This is just my take on things, feel free to disagree.

[Digger]

If we had them I would have run out of likes long ago in this thread!

 

How is it we all think so alike and yet the politicians just don't get it?

 

(Whoops just passed 12K posts...I must talk too much!)