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Bluesy69

3 Strikes Your Out, PRS Blows You Away Gibson

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Hey Guy's You listen to this story, because I think I was more than fair and patient with Gibson and their Les Paul's.

 

First and foremost I was born in 69 so I grew up in the 70's and 80's, knowing all the while once I became interested in playing music & guitars that the brands to get were either Gibson, Fender or Rickenbacker, because as some of you may know PRS didn't really get going with mass production until about 85.

 

However my older brother got me into Gibson, I just loved how they looked and sounded and I always said I'll buy my own Les Paul some day, well I am now 48 years old and I have owned various guitars over the years, but none of them with the exact specs I wanted, so I waited, then in 2017 Gibson put out their new traditional model, and I looked over the specs, and it had exactly what I wanted.

 

From the SOLID non weight relieved body, to the rosewood fingerboard, kluson tuners, burstbucker 1 & 2 pickups, neck profile & binding, body color....everything was finally exactly how I wanted it.

So of course I go to my local music store and order one, well I eagerly awaited it's arrival and once it arrived I looked it over.

 

Now something you should know about me, when I am buying something, anything that costs thousands of dollars, and it's brand new, it had better be perfect, because I don't have that kind of money to spend very often as I'm sure is the same for most of you. Plus I don't leave the guitar out of the hardshell case at any time other than when I'm playing it, and even after I play it I wipe it down and handle it with ultra care to say the least.

 

So now that you know that about me, I unbox the guitar and I open the case and I carefully look over the guitar and on top of the flame maple was a dark spot in the wood that was about the size of a dime in diameter, and then around the lower bout or cutaway where the binding goes around and separates the top finish from the back finish, it was almost as if someone came up behind the person that was applying the binding and bumped their arm, because there was like a semi circle reveal that clearly showed the paint seam, where on the rest of the guitar the seam was covered.

 

This to me looked like a major flaw so I brought it back to the store and even another customer that was leaning over checking out the guitar while I was pointing out these defects to the sales guy commented " that she was surprised that they let it leave the factory like this"....the sales guy repeated that also when he saw it.

 

Needless to say I returned it and ordered another one, it arrived, and had the exact same flaw with the binding, so again the guitar went back, I tried for a third time to order the guitar and now weeks were going by that I'm trying to get this done without this flaw, but the third one arrived with the same defect or so it was what I was calling it because that's what it looked like.

 

Finally the sales guy called Gibson to ask about this specific defect with the binding on this model, and Gibson tells him " it's not a defect, it's the traditional model and that's how they were made back in the late 50's, early 60's " So then I told the guy, " that I didn't give a rats *** if that's how they were made back then because aesthetically it looks like a defect, it looks horrible ".

 

So I returned the guitar, and went home and did some research, and it just so happens that PRS put out a guitar over a year ago called a PRS McCarty 594 and it was GORGEOUS, thicker body than any other PRS in existence, equal thickness to the Les Paul, with mahogany bound neck and body with flame maple top, two tone and two volume knobs, tone knobs are pull out coil tap, 3 way switch, rosewood fretboard, MOTHER OF PEARL INLAYS, NOT ACRYLIC, BONE NUT NOT TEKTOID, METAL jack plate NOT PLASTIC, this beast was superior to the Les Paul in everyway, even the 58/15 LT pickups were of equal sound and quality to the fat creamy PAF's of the 59 Les Paul.

 

However with the flawless 10 top which is what I wanted, it was a $4200 guitar, but guess what, I've heard enough about PRS to know for a fact that the guitar was going to arrive flawless and it did, it's PERFECT, the aesthetics, the feel, the sound, and the craftsmanship is unmatched by anything I've ever seen or owned.

 

I've even educated myself on PRS and watched countless factory tour video's, read articles and listened to Paul Reed Smith give lectures on guitar building and the whole process of it, and he's doing things Gibson has never even thought of...For example, Gibson mass produces hundreds of guitar necks a day to be fitted to their guitars.

It takes PRS 30 days to complete one neck, and most of you might think that's stupid or retarded or not productive enough for such a huge company, however the reason why they do this, is because when wood is shaved down, be it by hand or machine, the wood moves, so it has to be slowly removed, sanded leveled over and over to ensure it is always straight and always in tune...Do I know it works? Your damn right I do.

 

The PRS McCarty 594 is thee only guitar I've ever received and received it on a hot 90 degree day with 80% humidity off of a UPS truck with no AC and I took it out of the case, plugged it into my digital tuner, and it was in PERFECT TUNE, I did not have to touch one tuning key.....That has NEVER happened with any Gibson, Fender or Rickenbacker that I have bought over the years...NEVER.

 

Well that's my story, and for those of you who may work for Gibson that might read this, you are not the company you used to be in the 70's and 80's, nor do you put out the flawless craftsmanship you were once so famous for, and it's a shame, but I'm sure you could care less about one man's loss of business, but you have lost it for the remainder of my life, from now on I am a PRS fan only.....I was more than fair with your product but your quality control is lacking, even if that was how the binding was supposed to look it looked like a cosmetic defect, and aside from that the top maple had flaws and blemishes that you would have never let leave the factory 30 years ago.

Farewell Gibson.

 

How many Gibsons have you returned? If you're that picky.....maybe you should only buy guitars you've actually seen first hand? I know new Gibsons cost a ton (which is why I buy used) but you sound super anal about "blemishes" so why would you by a guitar you haven't even seen? Do you just enjoy returning guitars?

 

As far as PRS goes 95% of them are fugly and look like they should be hanging on a middle manager's office wall....you know....to show how cool he is? I'd take a beat to hell LP over a PRS any day of the week. PRS always make me think of Santana or Phish or jam bands.

 

As far as "blemishes" go....you're (I assume) going to be playing the guitar....and it will develop more "blemishes". Unless it's a case queen why would you let a small "blemish" stand between you and a guitar? I just do not get why some guys want their guitars to look perfect forever.

 

But like others have said, good luck with the PRS, I'm sure every guitar they put out is perfect.

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kind of surprising that a mod has come along to shut this thread down....

 

lets make peace guys, and move on..

 

Why is it so many people here want the mods to shut down every discussion that isn't just "HNGD!"?

 

I know this is a pvt owned forum but I'm a fan of free speech. People arguing with passion or conviction isn't a reason to cry for a mod. If you don't like a thread.....why would you report it? Why wouldn't you just leave the thread? When people run to mods to report threads it creates a censored environment. Why would anyone want that?

 

I always thought of guitarists as creative free thinkers but judging by most guitar forums most seem to want to silence anyone they don't agree with.

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Why is it so many people here want the mods to shut down every discussion that isn't just "HNGD!"?

 

I know this is a pvt owned forum but I'm a fan of free speech. People arguing with passion or conviction isn't a reason to cry for a mod. If you don't like a thread.....why would you report it? Why wouldn't you just leave the thread? When people run to mods to report threads it creates a censored environment. Why would anyone want that?

 

I always thought of guitarists as creative free thinkers but judging by most guitar forums most seem to want to silence anyone they don't agree with.

 

I never said I want the thread shut down, I said I was surprised it had not been.

 

We can have all the pissing contests here we want, it does nothing to improve the quality of the board. IMO All this does is makes it more like the Fender Forum... which is not a very amiable place to dwell most of the time. If that's what you guys want for this forum, so be it, I wont be around much if that's how it's gonna be.

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I have no idea whether he has multiple accounts and whatnot, and if ksdaddy removed posts threatening physical violence then that's clearly not okay (the threats, not removing the posts).

 

Other than that, the OP is a self-admitted anal nut, so apart from a few uncalled-for personal insults, I say live and let live. I don't believe he's trolling, I believe he has a smidgeon of OCD.

 

More importantly: while I've always hated the expression "you win the Internet today", I still have to take it upon myself to bestow that honor upon MichaelT for "necro equine battery". I laughed out loud.

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Why is it so many people here want the mods to shut down every discussion that isn't just "HNGD!"?

 

I know this is a pvt owned forum but I'm a fan of free speech. People arguing with passion or conviction isn't a reason to cry for a mod. If you don't like a thread.....why would you report it? Why wouldn't you just leave the thread? When people run to mods to report threads it creates a censored environment. Why would anyone want that?

 

I always thought of guitarists as creative free thinkers but judging by most guitar forums most seem to want to silence anyone they don't agree with.

 

 

Very well said Sir.

 

I do not own a PRS but all that I have seen (and heard) tells me that they are very fine guitars indeed.

 

However, so are Gibson.

 

Whatever you prefer...

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I never said I want the thread shut down, I said I was surprised it had not been.

 

We can have all the pissing contests here we want, it does nothing to improve the quality of the board. IMO All this does is makes it more like the Fender Forum... which is not a very amiable place to dwell most of the time. If that's what you guys want for this forum, so be it, I wont be around much if that's how it's gonna be.

 

I didn't say anything about wanting "pissing contests". I said I don't understand why if a thread bothers someone that much why they wouldn't just leave the thread? Why report it? Does the thought of an argument/debate that they aren't involved in bother them that much? When you do that you're creating a sterile, censored, boring environment. Sometimes discussions get heated. So what?

 

I guess I just have thicker skin than a lot of you guys. If someone says something I don't like or I disagree with I'll tell them why. It would never occur to me to report someone to the mods. I see it all the time here and on other forums, a heated discussion will be going on and next thing you know people are saying stuff like "the mods need to lock this thread" or "ban this guy" etc.

 

I got banned from a Les Paul site for saying I don't think 58-60 LP are "magic", I said I thought they're (most of them anyway) just great guitars but no better or worse than what's being put out today. You would have thought I had insulted everyone's mothers. Once I said I didn't think bursts were the alpha and omega of guitars guys started practically begging the mods to ban me. I see the same attitude here from a lot of people and I just don't get it.

 

So many people want any opinion they don't agree with "banned".

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Very well said Sir.

 

I do not own a PRS but all that I have seen (and heard) tells me that they are very fine guitars indeed.

 

However, so are Gibson.

 

Whatever you prefer...

 

PRS are quality guitars as far as build, sound etc. I just think most of them are ugly and/or ridiculous looking. Personally I'm just not into that body shape or those inlays or that headstock. They really do look more like wall art than a guitar to me, most of them anyway. They remind me of hippies and businessmen. Some of the base models look a little better but I'd still take a Strat, or a Tele or a LP or a Reverend or a good looking Ibanez over a PRS.

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I reckon the mods do a pretty good job here [thumbup] and don't need people suggesting they should consider banning people or closing down threads.

Plenty in this one I find tiresome and childish, but that'd be the case in any random group of people having a discussion where opinions and biases are in play I guess.

 

Lots (to put it mildly) of threads about puppies, houseplants, grandchildren, breakfasts etc on the Gibson or Epi lounges for those looking for less volatile subject matter.

Hey - there's something for everyone on the Gibson boards! [laugh]

 

I am not into PRS from a styling point of view, but I'm sure they are well made and will please many owners.

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In 1990 I saw Joe Ely on Austin City Limits with David Grissom playing 3 various PRS models. I remember a gold top, a flame top, and another one that escapes me. I was blown away by his playing ability and the tone he was getting but I'm not naive enough to give all the credit to the guitar. Shortly thereafter I visited a music store a couple hundred miles away. We chatted about a new ES-175 in black and gold, retailing for $1399 and also about other Gibsons. He pointed at a PRS on the wall and almost shouted, "now THAT is a $2500 guitar!" My reaction was like....okay, this is the same hype I heard 5 years ago about Jacksons and 10-12 years ago about tuning fork Kramers. The BS meter raised a bit. I didn't have any first hand experience with a PRS until about 2000 when I swapped pickups and leveled the frets on a bolt-on PRS. It was a good guitar but there were no cherubs descending ftom Heaven with trumpets. I didn't put them anything other than on par with a good Gibson or similar. No message here other than my two cents.

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I occasionally think "I need a PRS in my collection". Then I play a few and the urge goes away. They seem well made, but I've never bonded with one. In terms of finish flaws on Gibsons, call me weird but those minor occasional imperfections make them seem more hand-built and organic to me. It feels like each one is a little different and was actually touched by real human hands for more than 30 seconds during the manufacturing process.

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In response to the latest posts and the original post and poster, I've done a little more research both online, videos, reviews, probably a good hour and a half to two hours worth of playing various PRS guitars of various models and variations.

 

I think PRS should spend less time comparing themselves to Gibson, particularly the Les Paul, and come up with their own look and sound. I've read a lot about McCarty and what he did for PRS and how he worked at Gibson and how X pickup or guitar is like the old Les Paul and the old PAF pickups. Or, they're as thick as a Les Paul or solid (or not) like a Les Paul, blah blah blah.

 

The neck feels like a Fender, most of their bodies look similar to a Strat with a Les Paul type finish. The headstock looks too small for the body and the colors on some of them are questionable. I'm not a Floyd Rose fan and I rarely use a whammy bar at all and for that, I have a guitar. The single bridge/tailpiece design isn't my favorite either.

 

I'd rather see an all new PRS guitar with a different look, feel, features, etc. Then quit comparing it to a Les Paul or any other Gibson, Fender, whatever and be a brand of it's own without the comparisons. Players and critics might compare but the company shouldn't be making comparisons to another brand. It makes them seem like a knockoff. If I want a Strat-like guitar, I'll get a Strat. If I want a Les Paul-like guitar, I'll get a Les Paul.

 

All that being said, I did stop by the Guitar Center in Louisville yesterday since I was in town for a meeting. After playing their newest 594 McCarty guitars yesterday, they were ok. It was a good guitar, sure. It wasn't my favorite I've ever played and I wasn't blown away like I think I should be for a $4000.00 guitar. Again, Fender neck, Les Paul-ish body or Strat-ish type body, weak (in my opinion) pickups in a fairly light guitar. It doesn't weigh any more than my Les Paul Standard or Tribute. It feels about the same for a completely solid guitar. It was good but not great, no love at first sight or first play. It warranted about 10 minutes worth of play through an amp similar to mine at home for each version, Les Paul style and Strat style. It sounded good, felt pretty good and pretty solid but not $4000.00+ worth of good. However, if we're basing it on the original poster's definitely of quality, the finish and everything did look good. The body looked good, and the finish was shiny, fancy wood and all that. The frets seemed a little bigger, which might just be that they're different. The heel seems a little thicker than the Les Paul but since I have big hands, it didn't matter much to me. The tailpiece and bridge were different than I'm used to but they seemed functional. FYI, on the ones I played, the tailpiece was all the way down to the wood, just to go over that argument again about break angles. The archtop looked better on the regular. On the single cut, it seemed weird and looked like a pregnant, dolled up Les Paul.

 

So, after careful review and consideration, although I agree that Gibson's QC isn't perfect and that stuff happens, I don't think PRS blows away Gibson. They're good and a viable option and Santana and others seem to get a good sound out of them. However, I'm fairly certain Santana can play just about any guitar and make it sound good. I'm glad that they (PRS) seem to be making strides in making good viable guitars. I just feel they're a bit overpriced for me. I'm not really wanting to pay that much for a guitar that to me feels good, sounds good, plays good but not great. The strings were sure low, making playing pretty fast fairly easy. It was a bit harder to get a good grip on them for bends though. My '81 V is about that low or lower and it's easier to bend than the PRS was. The tailpiece on it is also about twice as far back as a regular tailpiece though. I can't remember if that's what the difference is or not with the break angle and string tension. The SC didn't even have binding at all in the cutaway, so they couldn't "screw that up" like Gibson did on the Traditional. I didn't actually check to see if it was real binding or just the wood cap showing through.

 

Anyway, this is my personal opinion. I'd rather have any of my Gibsons over either of the PRS 594 guitars. It's highly possible that I'm just biased but I did give them each about 5 minutes checking them out and about 10 minutes each of playing them, then another few minutes of each just checking them out. That little MIM Telecaster I played felt better to me than the PRS did and I'm definitely more of a Gibson guy than Fender even though I like each. There's even a few Ibanez guitars I like as far as the feel of them. I never really liked Jackson, Dean, Hamer, Kramer, Charvel, BC Rich and such. I don't hate them but they're not something I'd buy or play. After careful consideration and playing PRS, looking at them, checking them out, I think they're now in that category as well. Good guitars but not for me. That's my personal non-trolling opinion after playing a few and checking them out. I won't even post what my wife said.

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I have played some really nice PRS guitars - pretty looking mind you.... never hugely impressed by the tone and a McCarty was one of them... to each his own. I am quite happy with my Gibsons (cough and fenders)... sorry Paul. [flapper]

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I do not own a PRS but all that I have seen (and heard) tells me that they are very fine guitars indeed.

 

However, so are Gibson.

 

Whatever you prefer...

 

I'd prefer to have both.

 

re PRS: I didnt take to the feel or sound of the early models.

 

3 years ago, with a buddy playing guitars in an Exeter shop I was handed a PRS SE (Korean) Custom 24. It felt terrific to handle. It also sounded better than anything else that day. Within a couple of minutes I knew I had to take it home. I later blocked the trem cavity & put 10-46 strings on. Its the guitar I've used auditioning for a band, studio recording or anytime I hope for my very best playing.

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I'd prefer to have both.

 

re PRS: I didnt take to the feel or sound of the early models.

 

3 years ago, with a buddy playing guitars in an Exeter shop I was handed a PRS SE (Korean) Custom 24. It felt terrific to handle. It also sounded better than anything else that day. Within a couple of minutes I knew I had to take it home. I later blocked the trem cavity & put 10-46 strings on. Its the guitar I've used auditioning for a band, studio recording or anytime I hope for my very best playing.

 

 

proof that THE guitar for you don't have to be a $3k gibby or a $5k prs!

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Guest Farnsbarns

So has macmuppet gone then? Leaving only his alteregos behind. Shame, he was fun.

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So has macmuppet gone then? Leaving only his alteregos behind. Shame, he was fun.

 

Until a few months go by and he creates yet another alter-ego, sure.

 

His last post was:

 

"You guy's hate on people too often and too easily, no wonder there's so much violence and bad crap going on in the world, kids today just want to criticize and hate.

Whatever man, I admit I almost got sucked up into the hate and anger, but I'm stopping myself.

 

You guy's go on and say what you want, I'm out of it......Later."

 

Seems to me like he started it. My mom used to say, "You can dish it out but you can't take it." I guess that applies to this guy.

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Last night I bought a NOS 2016 Les Paul Traditional.

 

ipnxthfw3db3j5440kj7.jpg

 

Should be here by the end of the week. I'll let you know if there are any flaws.

 

She showed up yesterday, flawless.

 

48KekqS.jpg

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I don't contribute much to this forum, but I read it quite a bit. I thought I would offer up an opinion on this topic, I hope it adds something to the conversation.

 

I had played a long time, but wasn't big a fan of Gibsons. I owned a Les Paul Studio when they first came out in the 80s that was a decent, unobjectionable, great-looking but unremarkable guitar, and my brother owned a Black Beauty Custom from the 70s that was a horrible guitar...but that was only two guitars.

 

After a many year hiatus I starting playing again a few years ago after my brother insisted on lending me his Murphy-aged R-7. I have owned a lot of guitars, but that is a special guitar in many ways and got me back into playing. So...since that time I now know firsthand Gibson makes great guitars. Sometimes.

 

Gibson makes a lot of guitars. The more guitars you make the greater the chances are of producing a special guitar, especially an average guitar and sub par guitar as well. So look for a good one(not just a good-looking one)IMO(and that goes for any brand). And if you are on a budget in a big city, get to know Craigslist. It is your friend.

 

I went on a quest to find a good LP a few years ago and found a 2005 Honey Burst Standard for $1450 CAD, which is less than $1200.00 USD. It took me over a year to find it, but I got a great guitar that I haven't really put down since until recently. One of the reasons I don't post much. ;-)

 

When I got it, it was virtually new. You could still smell the nitro finish when you took it out of the case. Basically a new guitar that I loved the sound of the moment I hit a chord on it. It had something special going on. It isn't perfect, but it has a tonal quality that is basically nuance which makes it different to my ears. It had many owners before me who didn't like it enough to even play it. Is that a great guitar? To me it is.

 

But my Standard isn't a Custom Shop guitar, and I wanted to see if I could find something really special in a CS model. So I just kept scouring Craigslist and I have looked at a lot of them. I recently found one that I thought might be interesting, but it was bought by the same guy my brother got the R-7 from before I could look at it. He didn't like it, so he lent it to my brother. He doesn't like 50s necks to he lent it to me. I love and I now own it.

 

It was someone's dream guitar. A one-off Standard ordered from the CS with a BB3 in the Bridge, BB2 in the neck and a BB3 wired ala Peter Greene in the middle position. It has a tobacco 'burst on a quilted top. Since it was ordered it has been bought and sold several times moved from Alberta to BC and along the way the COA has been lost and the CS case sold off. No one liked this guitar enough to keep it, or even take care of it. So I got it for $2200 CAD/under $1800 USD. But it is clearly a superior build and to me it is nearly up there with my brother's R-7. I have read enough to know unless there are pix it didn't happen so I will post one. ;-)

 

So....I have also tried to find a special PRS over the same amount of time(over two years) and I have looked at exactly three. I guess PRS fans would tell you their owners never want to sell them, but I suspect the real reason is because there just aren't that many out there. The ones I looked at were all nice looking, well made, nice to play and otherwise unremarkable. I know there are great ones out there as well as dogs, but I don't think life is long enough to find a great one. And furthermore trying to buy a PRS the same quality as my Gibsons would cost twice as much.

 

If you are in the used market and want something nicer than a Fender, but want a special instrument, IMO you will have a better chance finding that in a Gibson.

 

As for ordering a guitar from Gibson PRS or anyone else, if you buy a guitar you have never played it may not meet your expectations.

 

Luckily I don't post much, as this seems to be an epic.

 

Lastly, I don't really like the look of three-pickup Les Pauls. But I was trying to decide if they were cool or not based on their players. It was a tough call until I ran across an unexpected endorsee.

 

 

Beautiful guitar GnR. Honeyburst?

post-34427-096686200 1501291490_thumb.jpg

post-34427-088257300 1501291571_thumb.jpg

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She showed up yesterday, flawless.

 

That is frikken SHWEEET man... Happy playing [thumbup]

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