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Henry blames guitar stores for financial woes...

#1 User is offline   Jalex 

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 12:22 AM

He may have a point...
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#2 User is offline   blindboygrunt 

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 12:49 AM

He totally has a point

There was another thread about Henry and you werenít allowed to say anything unless you golfed or skied with him


But regardless of any other thing heís right here. Iím surprised that itís as bad as he says in America who are quite famous for their customer service ( among other things)

Iím not frightened any more now that Iím older but I look back at my music shop experiences when I was a kid and would genuinely like to go back and slap the music shop owners and staff
Shops arenít there anymore funnily enough
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#3 User is offline   ThemisSal 

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 03:17 AM

He is right. His point about selling to women as well...

He needs places like Russo's, Gruhn, Rudy’s, etc to sell Gibson. NOT Guitar Center and Sam Ash. He should protect them and stop the big box nonsense. The smaller guys should have the perk of inventory online. Their shops are comfortable. They Sell premium well. Guitars get cared for. Instead they are the ones penalized.
Let big box sell $129 to $600 guitars. Let them deal with returns. Gibsons and Martins should be Guitars to aspire to. One saves for them. Change the target. Then change the marketing. Change the channel...


With a premium product, why would you compete in a race to zero? Why would you retail it like toothpaste? Always been odd to me,


This post has been edited by ThemisSal: 26 February 2018 - 03:30 AM

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#4 User is offline   bobouz 

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 03:50 AM

It's not my fault my company has financial problems. Let me see, who can I point a finger at?

Oh, okay, how about all those successful music dealers I pushed away with unrealistic stocking demands seventeen years ago, and continuing to this day?
> Gibsons: '22 "A" Mandolin / '66 ES 125T / '66 Epi FT-45n Cortez (B-25) / '90 Tennessean
'00 J-100 Xtra / '02 J-45 Rosewood / '02 SG Faded-moon / '07 CJ-165ec / '09 ES 339
'10 ES 330L / '11 ES 335-P90s / '12 ES 330 VOS / '12 LP Special / '12 J-185
'13 LG2-AE / '13 Midtown Kalamazoo / '14 J-15 / '15 J-50 CS
> Epiphones: '00 AIUSA-John Lee Hooker 1964 Sheraton / '05 McCartney 1964 Texan (Terada)
'09 Elitist 1965 Casino / > Ibanez: '81 M-340 / > Breedlove: '10 American Series OO Mandolin
> Guilds: '73 F-30R / '74 F-40 / '76 G-37 / '92 D-6 / '94 JF-30 / '97 Starfire / '14 Savoy A-150b
> Martins: '00 OOO-16 / '01 Custom Rosewood Dreadnought
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#5 User is offline   blindboygrunt 

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 04:13 AM

Iím in business that couldnít be further away from guitars , but face exactly the problem that Gibson is talking about here

Retailers just donít go the extra mile , some do , most donít

A fruit and veg shop for example can not compete with large supermarket pricing , so they HAVE to provide something that the supermarket canít . And a fair portion of them just arenít. They are disheartened and less keen ..
Not totally their fault but they need to pull socks up
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#6 User is offline   'Scales 

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 04:25 AM

Couldn't hurt could it. There'd be few emporiums with the inherent potential to offer magical family experiences than music and instrument stores.

...like a kind of Willy Wonka Chocolate Factory (but without the killer squirrels and such, naturally).
we had longer ways to go, but no matter, the road is life.
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#7 User is offline   bobouz 

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 04:52 AM

View Postblindboygrunt, on 26 February 2018 - 04:13 AM, said:

Retailers just donít go the extra mile , some do , most donít

Certainly this is true to some extent, but Henry has cut ties with major and small independent dealers alike - dealers who've continued to successfully remain in business from the day he cut ties with them seventeen years ago, as well as more recent departures from the ever shrinking Gibson network.

HJ, please tell us how these same successful dealers manage to do just fine while maintaining an ongoing relationship with Martin, Taylor, Collings, Fender, etc.
> Gibsons: '22 "A" Mandolin / '66 ES 125T / '66 Epi FT-45n Cortez (B-25) / '90 Tennessean
'00 J-100 Xtra / '02 J-45 Rosewood / '02 SG Faded-moon / '07 CJ-165ec / '09 ES 339
'10 ES 330L / '11 ES 335-P90s / '12 ES 330 VOS / '12 LP Special / '12 J-185
'13 LG2-AE / '13 Midtown Kalamazoo / '14 J-15 / '15 J-50 CS
> Epiphones: '00 AIUSA-John Lee Hooker 1964 Sheraton / '05 McCartney 1964 Texan (Terada)
'09 Elitist 1965 Casino / > Ibanez: '81 M-340 / > Breedlove: '10 American Series OO Mandolin
> Guilds: '73 F-30R / '74 F-40 / '76 G-37 / '92 D-6 / '94 JF-30 / '97 Starfire / '14 Savoy A-150b
> Martins: '00 OOO-16 / '01 Custom Rosewood Dreadnought
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#8 User is offline   billroy 

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 04:58 AM

Life is changing, I still like their guitars - I'm routing for them.

I think they need to be more of a leader in change though... instead of lamenting what's happening with the retailers - they need to realize, understand, plan around it and chart a new course. That sounds like the thinking they've got - but imo it still could be said with more authority - 'HERE IS WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO... '
'18 Gibson J45, vintage
'86 Guild D25
'00 Fender Strat (American Standard)
'90 Fender Strat (Korea, bought in an open market in Korea... yeah it might be real)
'68 Gibson SG
'17 Several 3 String CBGs

"Want people to listen to your stuff, don't play boring stuff..." heard somewhere.
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#9 User is offline   blindboygrunt 

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 05:02 AM

View Postbillroy, on 26 February 2018 - 04:58 AM, said:

Life is changing, I still like their guitars - I'm routing for them.

I think they need to be more of a leader in change though... instead of lamenting what's happening with the retailers - they need to realize, understand, plan around it and chart a new course. That sounds like the thinking they've got - but imo it still could be said with more authority - 'HERE IS WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO... '



Open their own shops
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#10 User is offline   Mr. Paul 

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 05:04 AM

The irony is rich here. He is describing the local stores that would like to sell Gibson acoustics but have been pushed out by Gibson's heavy handed and unrealistic demands. These shops where you can go in with a cup of coffee, sit on comfortable chairs, talk about and play guitars are now selling Taylor, Martin and Collings.
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#11 User is offline   Murph 

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 05:29 AM

View PostThemisSal, on 26 February 2018 - 03:17 AM, said:

He is right.....


....With a premium product, why would you compete in a race to zero? Why would you retail it like toothpaste? Always been odd to me,


I agree.

And his point about Apple as well. OTHER Companies compare themselves to Apple, Apple NEVER does that. They are the Elite. Just as Gibson is.

I also see them opening a store, but this MAP thing will continue to confuse the issue, and he11, there isn't even an Apple Store within a decent drive to most rural areas, so it would still be nice to have more dealers.
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#12 User is offline   J45fan 

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 05:42 AM

That's an easy way to blame the others, Henry J. made it not easy for his dealers. They were not allowed to advertise the Gibson guitars in stock, they had to take huge inventory to become or keep Gibson guitars. The prices went pretty much out of reach for most people. The quality went south, the quality on the Chinese made guitars went up and had reasonable prices. I am a huge fan of the acoustics coming out of Bozeman, they are fine instruments. When it comes to electric guitars I have a hard time with Gibson quality and prices. They need to look at themselves first not the dealers.
The other thing is, the market is pretty much saturated with guitars and the younger people are more into non-guitar music. We had a similar situation in the late 70's, than SRV came along, the Blues became hip again and later the Unplugged series (of course Eric Clapton's performance) was changing a lot.
I hope Gibson will get out of this, maybe >30+ years with the same CEO is getting old. A change in leadership may be a good one.

This post has been edited by J45fan: 26 February 2018 - 05:48 AM

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#13 User is offline   kidblast 

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 05:43 AM

there's a store here in Mass, the web site says, they are friendly, relaxing place, you can sit around, play some guitars, you'll simply love it there..

you walk into the store and receive an entirely different experience. unfriendly owner, demands you have him hand you all the guitars, hands you a cotton rag to wipe off your finger prints before you had it back to him.. you go there once, and never return. so there's that..


anyways, it IS ironic, Henry does seem to forget that Gibson abandoned the mom and pop stores a few decades ago. as mentioned in Paul's thread

There were a few stores around where you could at least order something, but those days are long gone.
/Ray
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#14 User is offline   FZ Fan 

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 06:09 AM

View PostMr. Paul, on 26 February 2018 - 05:04 AM, said:

The irony is rich here. He is describing the local stores that would like to sell Gibson acoustics but have been pushed out by Gibson's heavy handed and unrealistic demands. These shops where you can go in with a cup of coffee, sit on comfortable chairs, talk about and play guitars are now selling Taylor, Martin and Collings.


Exactly the Mom and Pop shop that I go to can't sell Gibson's cause their name is not Sam Ash or GC or MF or Sweetwater. He is such a d-ouche. I can't even stand to see his face.And the shop I go to both times I purchased new Martin's they were about $700 less that what you would pay at the stores mentioned in the first sentence. I asked the owner how he can sell guitars for such a good price. He told me he wants to sell guitars. That's his job and how he makes a living.

This post has been edited by FZ Fan: 26 February 2018 - 06:14 AM

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#15 User is offline   OldCowboy 

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 06:28 AM

I can only echo the sentiments offered by most of the posts thus far. Gibson (Henry?) made the decision to eliminate their guitars from the kind of stores that he now laments as absent. On several levels, the result has been poor for the company. Typically, the blame for a bad long term strategy gone awry gets shifted to victims rather than perpetrators.
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#16 User is offline   littlejohnny 

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 07:03 AM

View PostMr. Paul, on 26 February 2018 - 05:04 AM, said:

The irony is rich here. He is describing the local stores that would like to sell Gibson acoustics but have been pushed out by Gibson's heavy handed and unrealistic demands. These shops where you can go in with a cup of coffee, sit on comfortable chairs, talk about and play guitars are now selling Taylor, Martin and Collings.


+++ 1
I've been keeping quite about the issue which comes up more often here lately, but this statement from the guy who kicked the good guitar dealers in the **** over the last couple of years? It's hilarious. We have a word for this in german, it's called "Realitätsverlust" (losing touch with reality).

Let's face it, we are at the dawn of a new "norlin era", as far as Bozeman goes, the flubber guards are the only hint there so far ( I don't consider j-15/ J-35 and the like as bad, actually I think these guitars are some of the best values in the acoustic line up).

I don't know if others here are following what happens in the electric line up, but its pretty obvious there. Just one example: 10 years ago Es Style standard production guitars came with really really nice and sturdy case. Nowadays these same models ship with a case, which is pretty much a thick paper bag in form of a guitar case. O.K. thats an exaggeration, but you get the point. I wont go on the road with one of those cases.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not mad at gibson or anyone, I still love my gibbys. I think whats going on is just sad.

This post has been edited by littlejohnny: 26 February 2018 - 07:05 AM

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#17 User is offline   zombywoof 

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 07:07 AM

Of course he has a point. It ain't like it has not happened before. Part of Gibson's woes in the mid-1970s resulted from the recession and drop in consumer spending.
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#18 User is online   rct 

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 07:26 AM

Glad I was sitting down for that bombshell revelation. Never saw that coming back in 2000 or so.

[laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

Gibson should sell tools, tools.

rct
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#19 User is offline   The dman 

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 08:08 AM

It sounds like a bunch of excuses to me
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#20 User is offline   kidblast 

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 08:21 AM

the natural course of (re)action when you're up against the wall is not to blame yourself.........

This post has been edited by kidblast: 26 February 2018 - 08:23 AM

/Ray
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