Big Bill Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 According to the USA Today article, "... Known for providing instruments to stars such as Elvis Presley, BB King, Keith Richards, Pete Townshend, Lenny Kravitz and Rabs on the Gibson Forum, Gibson sells more than 170,000 guitars annually in more than 80 countries, according to a court filing... In the big scheme of things, that's not a lot of guitars. That number can't be right. Hell, Rabs bought half of those Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 In the big scheme of things, that's not a lot of guitars. That number can't be right. Hell, Rabs bought half of those naw. RevDavidLee bought most of em.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 naw. RevDavidLee bought most of em.. Yeah I wish :) .. When was the last time you saw a NGD from me? Ive been skint since about 2012 <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 :unsure: :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayoubengal1954 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 This is not that big of a deal. It was obvious there was going to be a reorganization. It's just the first step in what will be a long process. No need to panic at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPguitarman Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 All of this about the Chapter 11... I'm not concerned. They will re-structure to get rid of the flop divisions ,i.e. consumer electronics, and focus on what they should be focused on... making the best guitars in the world right here in America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregsguitars Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 If they hire me , I can save them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Yeah totally... From what I see at least they did not go into liquidation.. Which means its just a re-structuring and possibly new management. Which in the end hopefully will be a good thing for Gibson.. It is a debtor-in-possession bankruptcy. The bondholders own the company now. Whatever Gibson owes the bondholders is the sole reason they are, at this time, allowed to operate. This Chapter 11 will continue until the bondholders are paid back, whatever hunnert plus million it is. They still have actual lenders to satisfy this summer. They list 26 creditors/suppliers of more than $100,000. Those businesses and people will not be happy with the debtor-in-possession because they are effectively not going to be made whole for a long time. They could, possibly now, force the company into a fire sale. After the bondholders are made whole it is possible the company could emerge from bankruptcy owned by someone else, with a crap load of post-bankruptcy debt. It is possible they could simply run out of wood and strings and pickup thingies because they owe their suppliers, and once they exhaust current raw materials they may have difficulty securing credit lines for raw materials. Tronical is suing for a whole bunch of money, and the new owners will not like that one bit, which is further impetus to get the company to a good place and then fire sale the whole thing. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestionMark Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 I was wrong thinking Henry could hold BK off. But, I am not a soothsayer so how could I have known. I hope Henry gets a second chance with Gibson from the BK. But, the story is still being written. I assume Gibson sales will skyrocket now as players and collectors try to hold on to the quality that has been...although, I also understand that Gibson obtained a lifeline from creditors to allow Henry to keep building instruments while getting out of the electronics business and debt. I sure hope so. A sad day. QM aka Jazzman Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-28 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 What is M2M? I think it is a body style of a guitar. Maybe an 80 shredder body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-28 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 It is a debtor-in-possession bankruptcy. The bondholders own the company now. Whatever Gibson owes the bondholders is the sole reason they are, at this time, allowed to operate. This Chapter 11 will continue until the bondholders are paid back, whatever hunnert plus million it is. They still have actual lenders to satisfy this summer. They list 26 creditors/suppliers of more than $100,000. Those businesses and people will not be happy with the debtor-in-possession because they are effectively not going to be made whole for a long time. They could, possibly now, force the company into a fire sale. After the bondholders are made whole it is possible the company could emerge from bankruptcy owned by someone else, with a crap load of post-bankruptcy debt. It is possible they could simply run out of wood and strings and pickup thingies because they owe their suppliers, and once they exhaust current raw materials they may have difficulty securing credit lines for raw materials. Tronical is suing for a whole bunch of money, and the new owners will not like that one bit, which is further impetus to get the company to a good place and then fire sale the whole thing. rct I got a dollar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Bankruptcy is a legal maneuver/term. Sometimes layfolk (and I am not implying you are layfolk - I know most of you are way more sophisticated than I am for sure) hear "bankruptcy" and they equate it with "going under - out of biz". Consumer electronics division will be shed. And Bozeman will make our acoustics - sure of it... We will see less auto-tuners. Then again, if I am wrong, my Gibsons are gonna be worth a lot of money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 I think it is a body style of a guitar. Maybe an 80 shredder body. M2M = Made to Measure. It's Gibson's custom order/custom build process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 I'm guessing Henry will walk (or fly) away from his ruins as soon as he gets a golden parachute in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyd Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Once bankruptcy is filed, doesn't that mean the courts get involved? Seems like that could create some uncertainty. Rational or not, if my employer filed for bankruptcy, I would start looking for other opportunities.... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-28 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 M2M = Made to Measure. It's Gibson's custom order/custom build process. Oh yeah their new or somewhat new program where if your pockets are deep you can have a guitar made. You were rich and greedy, forced an electronic tuner down everyones throat in '15 weather we wanted it or not. Made bad buisness decisions and bought way to may many companies instead of focusing on 6, 4 and 12 string things. The tears I will cry will be none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-28 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 I'm guessing Henry will walk (or fly) away from his ruins as soon as he gets a golden parachute in place. Se ya Henry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle fester Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Running a business well, and making a great product are two different things. There's a bumpy road ahead for sure, but I hope whoever emerges as the leader (and I'm confident someone will) is a capable businessman/woman. Coming from a long life in corporate america,I understand and value the impact a capable leader brings to a business. Gibson the brand deserves it, and the people that cherish their instruments deserve it. Chapter 11 is a process, something different will emerge the other side, but it's still going to be Gibson, and it's hard to imagine a scenario where whoever emerges on top doesn't want to capitalize on and maintain the quality the brand has today. Don't know, guess we'll see. And on a little bit of a tangent - I'm a phenomenal operations guy, hoping maybe a shake up like this might make some remote opportunities - how cool would it to be to actually work for the company! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 I was wrong thinking Henry could hold BK off. But, I am not a soothsayer so how could I have known. I hope Henry gets a second chance with Gibson from the BK. But, the story is still being written. I assume Gibson sales will skyrocket now as players and collectors try to hold on to the quality that has been...although, I also understand that Gibson obtained a lifeline from creditors to allow Henry to keep building instruments while getting out of the electronics business and debt. I sure hope so. It's a public filing. Henry is no longer building guitars, Alan J. Carr of Drivetrain LLC is. They don't have a "lifeline" they are being allowed to stay in business until the bondholders are made whole. From that point they may leave bankruptcy with lots of debt. Still. Or, the current list of creditors could force a sale if they see that as the only way to get close to whole. And the list is impressive. There needs to be some form of court stuff to determine whether or not debtor-in-possession bankruptcy will continue or the company will be broken and sold to satisfy debts. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Thanks henry j for trying. Gibsons a great guitar. You put it back on the map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the other side Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 I have been reading this. If SOME folks would read it at face value and quit the SPECULATION of things, some may realize "Gibson Instruments" are going to be fine ! Otherwise; throw your towel in and jump ship! Instead of the negative, support the positive. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-200 Koa Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 It's official. We knew it was coming but the paperwork has been filed. Should be an interesting summer. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/legendary-u-guitar-maker-gibson-files-bankruptcy-151014923--sector.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 I'd like to say "It's nothing to me," but it is.....I imagine they'll reorganize, drop a couple of areas they don't belong in anyways and move on. At least I hope that's what they'll do.......The upside to them disappearing is that I've got seven guitars that will be worth more than they now are. The downside is that Gibson would be gone. I'd rather my guitars just depreciate as they always have while I continue to buy Gibsons. Gibson is an American tradition and legend. We've already lost too many of those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaolee Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 A few thoughts about what could happen: 1. Sell off the non-musical instrument businesses and focus on musical instruments only. That would pay off some debts. I don't know who would buy the electronics businesses, but I assume they have some value. 2. Sell off all but the guitar making businesses. That means Baldwin and whatever other non-guitar brands Gibson owns. Do this as well as selling off the electronics businesses and you get a bit more cash, maybe a lot more if those operations are profitable. 3. Carve it up and sell everything off. Epi, Dobro, and Gibson could end up going their separate ways, depending on how the deal works out. This probably raises the most cash and would put Gibson in the hands of some entity that buys it to build guitars instead of a holding company who just want the cash. After the carve-up and sale, all bets are off, because we don't know who is going to buy any of it, what kinds of restrictions Gibson will face, or anything else. As an ongoing guitar company and brand, I don't think there's much to worry about, but the production may drop dramatically. A huge irony would be if Fender bought some parts of Gibson. I hope that doesn't happen. Fender already owns way too many other musical instrument companies. I could imagine Yamaha or somebody like that being at last somewhat interested in all or part of Gibson's musical instrument operations. The upside is that maybe we won't hear so many horror stories about Gibson being hard to deal with, Gibson being an awful place to work, and all that. I love my Thunderbirds and would love to have a real Gibson archtop guitar to go along with the EB-2 that I'll never sell. I have no doubt Gibson will continue to exist. It's just a matter of whether they build what I would buy and at a price I can consider buying it. If it's good stuff without a lot of nonsense, then somebody will buy what they offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeman Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Sad day. I hope they come out of this okay, but as rct put it, it's up to the creditors for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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