LarryUK Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share Posted November 15, 2015 Why can't they protest through music? Play a guitar instead of a bomb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookieman15061 Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 It would be impossible to make a post of this nature without becoming political. I am not the first on this thread to make political statements. While I am overwhelmingly sympathetic to the French people for this most awful act of terrorism, I cannot say that I'm at all surprised. The West is involved in a conflict that we cannot win. We have been involved in a long history of bad policy decisions made by the US going as far back as the Carter administration, and perpetuated by every president since, beginning with our alliance with Saudi Arabia. This is not even to mention alliances made by US and British oil companies with tribes and sects of Arabs in attempt to control oil fields in the middle east dating back to 1914. Decisions made by W Bush and his evil cronies (including the sycophantic Tony Blair) are costing the west more dearly than the poor decisions made by the Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon administrations with Viet Nam, since there can be no final, peaceful outcome in a far wider area of the world. Our big and powerful militaries are not capable of producing a peaceful outcome and wiping out fanatics who view the west as the great Satan and resent that we want to impose our culture, values, and religions on a people and culture that is even older than Europe's. Sometimes the only way to win the game is not to play. The safest stance for the US is to withdraw and protect and defend ourselves, and when possible, use diplomacy in negotiations we become involved in and stop fighting wars for Saudi Arabia, Israel, Iraq, and moderates too timid or peaceful to defend themselves. And what do you do when the next innocent to be slaughtered outside your window is one of your own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 It would be impossible to make a post of this nature without becoming political. I am not the first on this thread to make political statements. Decisions made by W Bush and his evil cronies (including the sycophantic Tony Blair) are costing the west more dearly than the poor decisions made by the Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon administrations with Viet Nam, since there can be no final, peaceful outcome in a far wider area of the world. Our big and powerful militaries are not capable of producing a peaceful outcome and wiping out fanatics who view the west as the great Satan and resent that we want to impose our culture, values, and religions on a people and culture that is even older than Europe's. Funny, I thought ISIS came out of Syria when Obama backed them with weapons (because he did not want to "put boots on the ground") to over through Bashar al-Assad. How did we manage to totally skip 8 years of Nobel Peace Prize winning war policy here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matiac Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Unscrupulous backers abuse desperate fighters sacrificing themselves for sending people to death who just want to enjoy their lives. It is the most evil perversion of faith in my opinion. How brainwashed do they have to be to do this? My thoughts and my sympathies are with the victims and their families. This only includes the Middle-Asian people in this group (spoiled dis-illusioned Americans excluded), but they are taught to hate Western Culture from the time they learn to walk. Some of these savages teach their children to fire a gun at a very young age, all the while indoctrinating them. And as far as 'unscrupulous backers'? We can be included in that list. Giving weapons to the very people we were fighting...who comes up with these brainfarts anyway? My thoughts are with those who lost loved ones...can't even begin to imagine... Edit: I'm wondering what would have become of all these 'terrorist groups' if we had nipped it in the bud in Munich in 1972? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Yes, but you ARE the first to go ahead and make the effort to share your politics. Seriously, if we can't have a thread about the tragedy in France by ISIS without getting political or into political arguments, it's our own fault. Not true. I'm just the first to do it overtly. Saying politicians are stupid is a political statement, and so were many posts that followed, including your first post in this thread (war is political). cookieman, I didn't say we that we can't defend ourselves. Searcy, I didn't say Obama gets a pass. If the people in the US wanted to bomb Iran and reinstate the draft to fight WWIII, why isn't Lindsey Graham more popular than all other Republican candidates? We are attacked because we are the aggressors. I understand that a thread where everybody agrees that the terrorist act was a tragedy, and that we support the French, and we join hands and sing Kumbaya, is a sweet gesture. So what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 ". Searcy, I didn't say Obama gets a pass. If the people in the US wanted to bomb Iran and reinstate the draft to fight WWIII, why isn't Lindsey Graham more popular than all other Republican candidates? We are attacked because we are the aggressors." No, you didn't talk about Obama at all. You talked about evil George Bush. And now you're talking about crazy Lindsey Graham. And I don't not believe that we are attacked because we are aggressors. We are attacked because we are sinners. That's how religion works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 We are just all gonna have to agree a theocracy is out. Never mind the medieval rendition of eternal life via suicide by the Quran. “It is inconceivable that the ideology we sanctify should make our entire nation a source of concern, danger, killing and destruction all over the world,” he said. “It has reached the point that [this ideology] is hostile to the entire world. Is it conceivable that 1.6 billion [Muslims] would kill the world’s population of 7 billion, so that they could live [on their own]? This is inconceivable,” said Sisi according to MEMRI.Sisi also called for countering “extremist” views and erroneous religious beliefs, adding that the Islamic value of tolerance must be promoted. The democrats and republicans can start by agreeing with the above imho. We need to completely understand the ideology and its nature which easily evolves to extreme and radial. If 10 percent already are radical of 1.6 billion thats a lot of people and who are inclined to control the rest by the ideology. So yes there are some issues to begin with, the idea of embracing a theocracy let alone its radical renditions of it. Imho the theory of government theocracy is out to me, let alone radical ideology of the theocracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 ". Searcy, I didn't say Obama gets a pass. If the people in the US wanted to bomb Iran and reinstate the draft to fight WWIII, why isn't Lindsey Graham more popular than all other Republican candidates? We are attacked because we are the aggressors." No, you didn't talk about Obama at all. You talked about evil George Bush. And now you're talking about crazy Lindsey Graham. And I don't not believe that we are attacked because we are aggressors. We are attacked because we are sinners. That's how religion works. If you read my original post, I referred to all presidents since Carter. That includes Obama. But after all, it was W who initiated that power imbalance. Apparently, even HW was smart enough to know that he should not upset that balance in Iraq. ISIS does not represent the religion of Islam. Despite what media tells you, Islam (like Christianity) is a religion of peace. Osama bin Laden said that the reason he attacked the US was because of the US relationship with Saudi Arabia and Israel- not because we are a nation of sinners. We are attacked because we are there and we are the aggressors, and because we have upset the balance of power in the region. ISIS would not be armed with US weapons if they had not captured them from our failed army of Iraqis. The fact is that jihadists use more weapons from Russia and China. I realize that ISIS represents some perverted view of Islamic religious texts, but to think we can wipe out an ideology doesn't reflect a practical reality. Forty three dead and over 200 civilians injured by ISIS in Lebanon the day before Paris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 We are attacked because we are there and we are the aggressors, and because we have upset the balance of power in the region. Propaganda so its our fault the barbarians are killing people in some contrite vision of Allah? But overall it has nothing to do with the religion of peace and like christianty? How does that make sense. So your saying the Crusades were not Christians really of the religion of peace of christianity? Now the other point is where is the religion of peace of christians attempting to establish a theocracy? No-where that I see, I wouldn't go for none of that crazy BS either. BUT where isn't Islam both political and religious. The very idea of secular democracy is rejected by the factual reality of their own states? no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Australia has had a major brush with terrorism back in 2002 when attacks on tourist establishments were carried out in Bali. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Bali_bombings Smaller attacks were carried out in 2005. Indonesia is the most populace muslim nation in the world (255,708,785) and that population is something like that of the US. Indonesia is almost just over the horizon from Darwin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 If you read my original post, I referred to all presidents since Carter. That includes Obama. But after all, it was W who initiated that power imbalance. Apparently, even HW was smart enough to know that he should not upset that balance in Iraq. ISIS does not represent the religion of Islam. Despite what media tells you, Islam (like Christianity) is a religion of peace. Osama bin Laden said that the reason he attacked the US was because of the US relationship with Saudi Arabia and Israel- not because we are a nation of sinners. We are attacked because we are there and we are the aggressors, and because we have upset the balance of power in the region. ISIS would not be armed with US weapons if they had not captured them from our failed army of Iraqis. The fact is that jihadists use more weapons from Russia and China. I realize that ISIS represents some perverted view of Islamic religious texts, but to think we can wipe out an ideology doesn't reflect a practical reality. Forty three dead and over 200 civilians injured by ISIS in Lebanon the day before Paris. I think the real objective of the leaders of groups like ISIS is power! Religion is the tool that motivates foot soldiers to blow themselves up and to not fear death. I mean 72 virgins? No wonder there aren't many of them (virgins) around here any more~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Well, "Terrorist activities=War" has been going on, especially in Paris, since the '50's or earlier, with the Algerian situation, back then. So, it's nothing "new," or even really related to "The West" being in The Middle East, any more than it's ever been. THAT stance, is only used as "justification," for these heinous acts, NOW! But, the same insanity has been going on, for a LONG time. Clearly, there have been idiotic policies, in The Middle East, and other parts of the world. Deliberate, or from hopeless naivete. Will that change? I seriously doubt it, at least in the long term. It hasn't managed to do so, thus far. Situations change, locations change, but not the stupidity, behind it, apparently?! People seem to have such short memories, and attention spans, these days! And, precious little history knowledge, or acumen, seemingly. "Peace," as we'd all prefer, seems only to be where one is lucky enough to be located, at any particular time, as opposed to some overall situation, regrettably! Unfortunately, this kind of act, and subsequent aftermath, with it's intense publicity, is exactly what the "Terrorists" always want, strive for, and count on. It "Validates" them, in some sick, perverted, way! And, of course, with 24/7 news multi-outlets, with their continuous "loops," played non-stop...they get their wishes! So, being well informed, as we know, can be a double edged sword, at times! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 , but to think we can wipe out an ideology doesn't reflect a practical reality. Obama and Joe Biden said they were chasing the JV team the to gates of hell, and the other day he said they were contained, and Bernie said terrorism was a direct result of climate control and Hillary said Isis needs to destroyed? Yes all true. Not like the extreme right is very rational either as you agree. However lets say we have a Christian group evolve like this from where-ever some KKK type of thing. We should address the ideology regardless if it should be wiped out as its an abomination to the sanctity of life, why, we should continue breeding insanity and teaching it and attempt not to insult the good christians of the religion of peace? And if the good christians congregated and claimed chistophobia we should ease off on the KKK ideology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Interesting article: What ISIS Really Wants Clearly ISIS is a different animal from what we have been dealing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Interesting article: What ISIS Really Wants Clearly ISIS is a different animal from what we have been dealing with. Seriously informative article. I had no idea that the "rise" of the caliphate Baghdadi was so significant to jihadists and that it resulted in new portions of sharia law being implemented. It's a pretty dense article. I'll likely need to read it again and plan to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bill Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Why do some of you ONLY post in this forum if it is opportunity to voice you political views and create conflict? Isn't there a place on the internet outside of guitar forums to do this? I don't get it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturn Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 oh and of course, they own half of London making it impossible for Londoner's to afford to buy property, but that's another story,,,,,,,,,, Ian I'm not sure if it's true or not, but I recently read that the most common name in England is now Muhammad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 1447633969[/url]' post='1712039']Seriously informative article. I had no idea that the "rise" of the caliphate Baghdadi was so significant to jihadists and that it resulted in new portions of sharia law being implemented. It's a pretty dense article. I'll likely need to read it again and plan to. ISIS has attracted remnants of other radicalized Islamic movements from all over the world, recruiting via the Internet, while the core seems to be made up from former Baathist Party members who served Sadaam's Republican Guard, and displaced Chechnya Islamist who have been fighting in various conflicts since the 1980s. It is not then hard to imagine how a terror group can pull off an coordinated military type strike in multiple sights in Paris.But ISIS is also a media savvy organization, and has much better financial structure than alQeda. The greatest threat and challenge is the reach of ISIS. It's tentacles stretch anywhere the Internet is available. They recruit, vet, and train those recruits, test them in combat then reinsert them to their nation of origin. The tactic that allows them to take over villages is fear and intimidation. Once they get a foothold in a town they will commonly place a team in each home, so in order to fight them you have to kill civilians, then through intimidation they force villagers to do what ever they want. It's simple, comply or die. Tell us who is a Christian or die. Pretty much the same MO the Nazis used. Captured ISIS fighters have been from China, Russia, Canada, the US, Europe. They may look just like you. A returning fighter has been trained to use fear to the advantage, imagine a middle eastern refugee or recent immigrant who has no desire to participate in terror, living in Canada, or France or Belgium being threatened with the death of their entire family still living in Iraq if they do not give aid to a terror cell. This is indeed a war, but not like one civilization has seen before. It may seem crude, but in a war like this, there will be no civilians, there are only victims. They are taking the tactics used by the NVA and the VC during the Vietnam War to a whole new level, that is, grab your enemy by the belt buckle. Get so close you blend in. This ain't a drill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retired Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Prayers and condolences to the victims and family's and France. Sad the evil in this world is like cockroaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanHenry Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 As a matter of interest, does anyone know if the heavy metal band playing at the concert survived? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Hello Ian! If I can rely on FB posts, they have lost a crew member. Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 We (my wife is French) have friends and family who live in Paris. It took a while to get replies to the messages we sent. Happily, most were nowhere near the affected area. Two of the younger ones, however, were both in the area. They had some difficulties communicating with their parents (understandably) but, ultimately, are fine. The son of a neighbour of my wife's aunt was at the Bataclan celebrating his 21st birthday and, tragically, was one of those shot dead. Our thoughts and condolences to all involved. Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drog Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Tragic loss of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosemarie Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Interesting article: What ISIS Really Wants Clearly ISIS is a different animal from what we have been dealing with. Just finished reading the article. It was chilling, but telling. It echoed a report on NBC Nightly News where they discussed how we underestimate this group and have ignored their threats time and again. One would think it would be wise to heed the warnings and to take to heart what the group has already stated as its plans in order to counter them. This was a very interesting article, thanks for posting it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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